I realized only today that PoRk and RitaanZ are siblings. I'm sometimes slow to catch on. x:-)
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I see nothing wrong with 'turning the tables' as long as there is truth on the other side of the table, as there was when you turned them Gene. You were correct that had one of 'our gender' been the one to remark that the pretty little lady must have attained her place in the vibrating, rumbling, tight, hot, sexy race car due only to other women lighting her path, 'our gender' would have had hell to pay from the lib and equal rights crowd. Surely she was too stupid to get their any other way. It must have been either that or a marketing ploy to trot out a long-haired, brunette fox (Or is that vixen?) for the sake of attendance and selling NASCAR stuff. Can we expect protests from Patricia Ireland and G. Steinhem over this blatant sexualization of NASCAR by a bunch of beer drinking hard legs?
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It's a good thing that there is a thing called "history" to save us from faulty memories.
I can't believe I'm making this argument in the year 2005, but... if you placed this woman, with all her ambition, drive, intellect, tomboyishness, etc. in the year 1960, I doubt the result would have been the same. There are so few Amelia Erharts that we all know about them. There were BARRIERS to many professions/occupations for minorities and women, except, for women, nurses, teachers, secretaties and mommies. Sandra Day O'Connor was offered secretarial jobs after graduating at the top of her class at Stanford. It is incomprehensible to me that anyone could deny the effect of social revolution on the way people are regarded and treated.
As for Tiger Woods, let's place HIM in 1860, and consider the little skirmish that occurred shortly thereafter.
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-13-05 AT 07:43AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Anger caused by victim mentality's a terrible thing isn't it?
Notwithstanding your reference to 'history', it's all really about personal struggle and ambition, isn't it? Italians did it; Serbs did it; Phillipinos did it; Croatians, Columbians, Jews, Chinese, Hawaiians and Polish did it.
My theory, as opposed to yours, is that it does not take a village so much as it does take determination, personal ambition, effort and believing in ones self.
The first female news anchor, the first Jewish merchant, the first woman doctor, the first man in the classroom, the first Italian rice farmer, the first Indian scientist, the first Chinese bank president, the first Serbian HR Director, the first black tennis player, the first male nurse, the first Southerner to attend Harvard. Maybe they insprired others, maybe the didn't. There always has been and always will be somebody out there or some collection of others who think 'we' can't do it and resist 'our' becoming their peer.
Who knows; maybe someday 30 years from now some of you might even think a boy from the South could possibly be your equal. Well, maybe 75 years. Then whom should he look back and credit, other than himself?
(edit) Rereading your post, I just noticed that the date on the Tiger Woods comment was 1860 whereas I had read it as 1960 earlier. What is reprehensible and incomprehensible is that you would invoke the memory of the War of Northern Aggression and link it somehow to the achievements of a black golfer in the 21st century. This tells me you not only have no valid point to make but only intend to incite others with the comments you do make. And as to your comment about putting Dannika Patrick in a time machine and pretending to know what obstacles she might have encountered 30 years ago, what a useless exercise in imigination. Everything changes as time moves along and every change is not necessarily connected to the social revolutions you imagine to have caused it. I'm trying to link male teachers and men nurses in today's job market to which form of social revolution caused those changes.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
People, people haven't we evolved farther than this. Geez, I had these arguments in high school...
I do not credit others for my acheivements, however, somewhere along the line a woman said "dammit, I should be able to vote and I'm going to work to make that happen." and she did. And because she did I can.
In 1975 I joined the Army, because I did and did well, thousands of women can now make the choice to serve their country in more ways than they could before.
What it's about is not women's lib, it is about the choices we can make b/c we live in a free society. Women have had to work harder to claim those freedoms than men have, and they have, and they do, and because they do each generation (of men and women)has more choices.
And Don, a troubador is a musician, not a swordsman....
"In 1975 I joined the Army, because I did and did well, thousands of women can now make the choice to serve their country in more ways than they could before."
Maybe I should not be so bold as to disagree with someone who corrected me twice; once on my grammar and once on the content of my argument; but, no dear, your joining the army 30 years ago did not pave the way for thousands of other women. How self important of you to suppose it did. Whether you even existed or not had not one iota of influence on the right of women to make the choice to serve their country in ways they could not before.
I guess I could just reverse my argument and say that because this boy who grew up in the middle of cotton fields, misbehaving terribly for 12 years of school, then not studying through college and going on to another degree while walking to class, shared a bedroom with a sibling and a bathroom with an entire family, encountered a few other problems including a lifelong journey of battling the oppression of the north, a divorce and several mispent relationships...just because I made it through all that and subsequently spent several (?) decades in a responsible and credible profession, I have paved the way for the rest of the boys who might follow along. I was, after all, told all my life that I would wind up in the state penitentiary and would never amount to a thing. Hold my beer! Where's my pedestal?
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
You are correct Don, if the woman that did decide to seek the vote had not made that choice some other woman most likely would have.
If I had not joined the Army there were other and are other women who would've.
My point is that things change b/c someone makes the decision to change it. The choices that people make influence the choices that other people make.
Do not discount the influence that you have on others futures. Your choices have done more good than you realize.
Just because you may be unaware that your choices have influenced a person (of either gender and any race) does not mean that they haven't.
Your success may well be an inspiration to many allowing them to make choices they would not otherwise have tried.
To tie this back to original issue....if Danica had chosen not to race b/c of the barriers (whatever they are money, gender, other priorities) there are hundreds of thousands of people that would not have seen car racing as a viable career choice for a woman. Will there be another woman to make that choice? of course. Will it be in the next 10 years? who knows. But her choice has started a chain of events that will influence the future.
What's all the fuss? I think Danica Patrick is awesome and I also think if she had been born 40 or 60 years ago she would have accomplished the same! She has the drive (no pun intended) and the ambition to blaze her own trails. I give her credit for what she has accomplished and think it would be insulting to credit others before her.
Marc is correct. This is the real lesson for all of us. Had Braak not grabbed that long-legged woman by the ponytail and dragged her into the cave and had his way with her we might all still be sitting around the fire wondering how to make the first move.
I'm no fan or historian of NASCAR, but Miz Patrick is NOT the first woman to come along. If memory serves me, there was another woman or two about five years ago and the hubub was the same then as now. Maybe someone else knows the names.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-14-05 AT 07:13AM (CST)[/font][br][br]I remember watching Shirley Muldowney, The Draggin' Lady, run funny cars back in the 60's. She was tougher than nails and damn good. Connie Culida would count here too, except for one thing....he was a guy.
Didn't INDY car racing have a Janet Guthrie back about 10 or 20 years ago? TN HR probably knows the details here.
Say, can we start a new post or thread or whatever? I don't have a wide screen monitor.
Connie Cullida, for some reason, almost sounds vulgar.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
Comments
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
As is smoke and mirrors with yours..... x:D
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
I can't believe I'm making this argument in the year 2005, but... if you placed this woman, with all her ambition, drive, intellect, tomboyishness, etc. in the year 1960, I doubt the result would have been the same. There are so few Amelia Erharts that we all know about them. There were BARRIERS to many professions/occupations for minorities and women, except, for women, nurses, teachers, secretaties and mommies. Sandra Day O'Connor was offered secretarial jobs after graduating at the top of her class at Stanford. It is incomprehensible to me that anyone could deny the effect of social revolution on the way people are regarded and treated.
As for Tiger Woods, let's place HIM in 1860, and consider the little skirmish that occurred shortly thereafter.
Notwithstanding your reference to 'history', it's all really about personal struggle and ambition, isn't it? Italians did it; Serbs did it; Phillipinos did it; Croatians, Columbians, Jews, Chinese, Hawaiians and Polish did it.
My theory, as opposed to yours, is that it does not take a village so much as it does take determination, personal ambition, effort and believing in ones self.
The first female news anchor, the first Jewish merchant, the first woman doctor, the first man in the classroom, the first Italian rice farmer, the first Indian scientist, the first Chinese bank president, the first Serbian HR Director, the first black tennis player, the first male nurse, the first Southerner to attend Harvard. Maybe they insprired others, maybe the didn't. There always has been and always will be somebody out there or some collection of others who think 'we' can't do it and resist 'our' becoming their peer.
Who knows; maybe someday 30 years from now some of you might even think a boy from the South could possibly be your equal. Well, maybe 75 years. Then whom should he look back and credit, other than himself?
(edit) Rereading your post, I just noticed that the date on the Tiger Woods comment was 1860 whereas I had read it as 1960 earlier. What is reprehensible and incomprehensible is that you would invoke the memory of the War of Northern Aggression and link it somehow to the achievements of a black golfer in the 21st century. This tells me you not only have no valid point to make but only intend to incite others with the comments you do make. And as to your comment about putting Dannika Patrick in a time machine and pretending to know what obstacles she might have encountered 30 years ago, what a useless exercise in imigination. Everything changes as time moves along and every change is not necessarily connected to the social revolutions you imagine to have caused it. I'm trying to link male teachers and men nurses in today's job market to which form of social revolution caused those changes.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
I do not credit others for my acheivements, however, somewhere along the line a woman said "dammit, I should be able to vote and I'm going to work to make that happen." and she did.
And because she did I can.
In 1975 I joined the Army, because I did and did well, thousands of women can now make the choice to serve their country in more ways than they could before.
What it's about is not women's lib, it is about the choices we can make b/c we live in a free society. Women have had to work harder to claim those freedoms than men have, and they have, and they do, and because they do each generation (of men and women)has more choices.
And Don, a troubador is a musician, not a swordsman....
Maybe I should not be so bold as to disagree with someone who corrected me twice; once on my grammar and once on the content of my argument; but, no dear, your joining the army 30 years ago did not pave the way for thousands of other women. How self important of you to suppose it did. Whether you even existed or not had not one iota of influence on the right of women to make the choice to serve their country in ways they could not before.
I guess I could just reverse my argument and say that because this boy who grew up in the middle of cotton fields, misbehaving terribly for 12 years of school, then not studying through college and going on to another degree while walking to class, shared a bedroom with a sibling and a bathroom with an entire family, encountered a few other problems including a lifelong journey of battling the oppression of the north, a divorce and several mispent relationships...just because I made it through all that and subsequently spent several (?) decades in a responsible and credible profession, I have paved the way for the rest of the boys who might follow along. I was, after all, told all my life that I would wind up in the state penitentiary and would never amount to a thing. Hold my beer! Where's my pedestal?
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
If I had not joined the Army there were other and are other women who would've.
My point is that things change b/c someone makes the decision to change it. The choices that people make influence the choices that other people make.
Do not discount the influence that you have on others futures. Your choices have done more good than you realize.
Just because you may be unaware that your choices have influenced a person (of either gender and any race) does not mean that they haven't.
Your success may well be an inspiration to many allowing them to make choices they would not otherwise have tried.
To tie this back to original issue....if Danica had chosen not to race b/c of the barriers (whatever they are money, gender, other priorities) there are hundreds of thousands of people that would not have seen car racing as a viable career choice for a woman. Will there be another woman to make that choice? of course. Will it be in the next 10 years? who knows. But her choice has started a chain of events that will influence the future.
x;-)
I'm no fan or historian of NASCAR, but Miz Patrick is NOT the first woman to come along. If memory serves me, there was another woman or two about five years ago and the hubub was the same then as now. Maybe someone else knows the names.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.
Didn't INDY car racing have a Janet Guthrie back about 10 or 20 years ago? TN HR probably knows the details here.
Say, can we start a new post or thread or whatever? I don't have a wide screen monitor.
Disclaimer: This message is not intended to offend or attack. It is posted as personal opinion. If you find yourself offended or uncomfortable, email me and let me know why.