For all you folks who wince at the thought of G having another 4, I suggest to you that the integrity, warmth and honesty of the boy's momma alone is enough reason to vote for him. Compare that to Kerry's wife, to whose fiddle he dances.
Quote of the day, "They weren't my medals, they were my ribbons, well, not my ribbons, but the ribbons others gave me, and we thought of medals and ribbons as the same thing, although what I threw were just the ribbons, but my medals were at home, and I realize 7 years ago I said they were mine, but it was a figure of speech, the collective 'mine', not mine, but representing mine, but it should not matter since it was 30 years ago and we should not be judging a man's participation on what he did 30 years ago, except, that is, in the case of G Bush, and we should judge his participation then, just not mine".
Oops. I promised myself not to fall into the trap of getting on this thread. It'll suck you down and eventually exhaust you, just like some of the others. Religion, flags, politics and sex........all of them should be banned from the Forum. Well, maybe not sex. Unless its political sex.
Imagine for a moment that we did not invade Iraq. You would have Saddam Hussein in power and still evading the weapons inspector. For all intents and purposes, we would have had no idea what he was up to.
Its a can of worms without a doubt but not going in would not have necessarily been a better solution.
I'm voting for Bush. I am not a registered Republican but I vote pro-life, pro traditional values, and pro anything the ACLU is against.
Let's take a very sensitive issue in New York--9/11. Why is the President afraid to testify to the 9/11 committee in front of the public, make a public record? Same questions abou the Vice-President. Why does the Supreme Court have to have a hearing on the committee headed by Cheney on Oil and the environment. Since neither the President or Vice-President served in Vietnam (actually, Cheney received 5 draft deferments), why are they critical of Kerrey's patriotism. While I am voting for the lesser of two evils, the contest isn't even close. By the way, I think this will be a much discussed election which hopefully will bring out the voters.
Picture it. A slightly taller, slightly more articulate version of COLUMBO with about twice as many wrinkles in his clothes who drives the exact same car and has the exact same confused look on his face 24/7. What do you have? Ralph Nader.
Ok, let's set aside the fact that the world is better without Saddam and look at how we got there.
We were attacked by members of Al Queda on 9/11/01. Intelligence suggested that Afghanistan was a country supporting such terrorism. We invaded...toppled the Taliban and moved on to Iraq--before locating Osama.
why? Because it had WMD's and could be an emminent threat. No link to Al Queda has been proven...which was the foundation of this war. The "we are better off without him" began once intelligence showed that no WMD's would be found.
Through the 9/11 commission we're hearing that a war against Iraq was predestined...we just needed a reason....which was provided by 9/11. I think this is supported by many statements made on the campaign trail, before the election.
I'm not saying that 9/11 could have been prevented...I don't think any mortal had that power to envision such an attack...it's just not how, we, as a nation, think about things...that's why it was so shocking and devastating.
As for Kerry....post-Vietnam was a horrible time...the troops returning suffered terribly at the hands of fellow Americans. They did not enjoy a valient homecoming and were not looked upon as heroes. I can certainly understand the frustration that must have eaten away at these young men that went to war at the country's bidding only to find themselves the enemy when they returned. Kerry seems to have acted as a spokesperson for the returning soldiers...so I would think that his comments reflect the group perhaps more than his personal opinion...but that is for him to clarify...
And I'm sure his thoughts and opinions have changed over the last 30 years....that latitude was given to Bush as the country overlooked his prior drug/alcohol abuse and saw him as he is now. Sometimes it seems like you must know in gradeschool that you'll want to be a politician so that you can carefully avoid pitfalls that impact the average guy.
Bottom line...both candidates have pros/cons....and this election, much like the last will boil down to who votes. It does count and it does matter! VOTE!
I will always vote pro-life and pro-family(marriage= 1 man + 1 woman). I am honored to call myself a father,a husband, and a conservative christian. I would never vote pro-choice no matter how bad the economy got. God has promised he will take care of my every need no matter what. Thanks for listening to my heart.
I have the somewhat dubious honor of having never voted for a winning presidential candididate, ever, although I have voted in every election since I was old enough and I'm 49 now.
I voted for Ralph Nader last time, and I'll probably vote for him again. I really liked his Native American woman running mate last time.
Plus, Larry is right. I saw Ralph Nader on Saturday Night Live and he's actually kind of funny, and willing to poke fun at himself so he'd entertain us.
I absolutely detest both of those other two, we need a viable three (or four) party system....
“Demography, as the saying goes, may be destiny. But an archaic system of representation that includes a winner-take-all selection of electors and eschews proportionate representation at the local level is denying a voice to political minorities. Are you perchance one of the 2.4 million hardy Democrats living in Texas? You might as well hang up your political spurs. Since the Reagan era, Texas has become solidly Republican. Or perhaps you're a GOPer in New York or California, home to a combined 8.5 million members of the Grand Old Party. Tough luck, pal.”
#1 thing a consultant shouldn't say: "I could tell you the answer right now, but we're committed to a three month project..." #-o
That was interesting as the dickens! If you're not in Missouri, Fla or Ohio, don't bother. A few years ago Discovey magazine did a scientific analysis of the electoral college, and how it has increasingly skewed elections and how some of our votes counts only fractionally compared to others. I'm not entertained by much that goes on in government. I thnk I'm to the point of just protect my borders, let me worry about the rest. We have regulated ourselves right out of the world economy, and ourselves right out of our own rights. We no longer own anything, we just lease it from the government.Get outta my house and my pocket; get offa my fields and my back; at some point, and I'm afraid it will be sooner rather than later, we will be forced to protect ourselves against our own government gone beserk. The things it must do it overdoes; should do doesn't; can do does wrong. Every minute those idiots arn't in session in DC, are the only minurtes they arn't doing something stupid, expensive, criminal, insipid, or outrageous. Government is so big, no one controls it - those in in don't want too, those out of it can't. Now I'm told my vote doesn't count anyway. Now where is that militia recruiting brochere?
You should move to NJ which yesterday had it's primary. Almost no one showed up. Therefore, every vote counted. Anyhow, now that NJ has elected it's delegates to the national conventions, it is very clear that the presidential candidates will be George Bush and George Kerrey. 8-}
the very notion of swing states takes into account the votes from all of the others. If there were no people voting in the 'non swing states', the swing states wouldn't have anything to swing. Then what would they be?
I guess I am so surprised to see folks advocating Kerry and even more surprised at the dislike of Bush. Personally, I was brought up to believe you are known by the company you keep. If Kerry weren't bad enough on his own, I consider that he keeps company with the ilk of Kennedy and Dean and Gore all of whom I consider to be treasonous in speech and action. I am the exceedingly proud daughter of a deceased veteran of WWI, Korea and 2 times in Vietnam. Kerry's betrayal of those who served with him by accusing them of terrible atrocities has convinced me I want him in no position to control the exemplary miltary of the United States of America. Their life or their death, their honor or their betrayal, to him, it would be all the same and I consider him to be a traitor in aiding and abetting the enemy with his words and actions upon returning from Vietnam where he served for 4 short months. I am so afraid that so many just don't seem to "get it". I am admantly opposed to war, but 9/11 was an open declaration of war against us. The war has gone on for a very long time, we maybe just hadn't figured it out. Now it is in the open. Given the choice, I prefer the war taking place outside our country, not inside. The thing is the war continues whether Kerry wins or Bush. I feel Bush cares if we live or die and Kerry only cares his power and money remain unchanged, no matter what he has to do to maintain it. I salute George Bush for the moral clarity, fortitude and conviction that it is either there or here.
"Kerry's betrayal of those who served with him by accusing them of terrible atrocities has convinced me I want him in no position to control the exemplary miltary of the United States of America"
I must strenuously disagree. Having spent most of my military career in the JAG Corps, teaching pilots and combatants how to recognize and report violations of the law of armed conflict, it is EVERY servicemember's duty and obligation to report atrocities (either by us or by them) so the offenders can be dealt with. We are not animals and war has rules.
As far as Kerry's "four short months" in Vietnam, the fact remains that he has three purple hearts, a silver star and a bronze star. If you were wounded three times, you got an automatic pass if you wanted it. Nothing wrong with that. I would have taken it, too.
Parabeagle you are certainly much more qualified than I to know the guidelines and requirements for reporting atrocities. And if Kerry reported those as required, naming names as much as possible, dates, times, etc., or at least as much as he reasonably could, then he did the right thing. But I believe or at least what I understood is that he pretty much made blanket accusations against fellow servicemen and I venture to say the vast majority of our military then or now are decent, law-abiding, good people as was my dad.
In any event, I appreciate your response as well as any others and appreciate being heard. Many years ago, I gave up trying to convert anyone to my opinions and rarely engage in a debate, written or in person, but felt compelled to express my own very personal opinion.
owenlady. I like your response. I disagree with your opinions but celebrate your right to express them. Too often people start ranting and raving when they are disagreed with, trying to absolutely change the opinion of the person they are at odds with. I learned that I can tolerate and even enjoy people who have fundamentally different belief systems than I do. One of the things that contributed to that learning experience is this forum.
Ok, Larry, I used my mom's Corvair, and it was fine, I'm still here to post. I admire Nader, but there's no chance, so we won't get what we want with that. Would have to say ABB at this point; there are too many things that aren't right with this administration. Confused look? I haven't seen yet a picture of Bush that he didn't look terribly confused. At the same time, I really believe that he is a genuinely good and kind (and not terribly bright) person who is a puppet for some extreme, fundie religious, conservative, lose our civil rights group(s) representing people who are afraid of what they do not understand.
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-10-04 AT 07:48AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Irene: You sound so angry. Can you debate issues rather than individuals? And for goodness sakes, lose the personal critical remarks about the president. That's so old hat. We won't discuss Kerry's basset-hound looks either. And I promise not to compare your man Nader to Columbo. Talk about confused.
I'm not sure what ABB and fundie mean. But, I'm just confused. x:-)
(edit) Ahh, someone just told me what a 'fundie Christian' means and that it's a derogatory term for those Christians who feel strongly that the Bible is a document of pure truth, as I understand the term. I once posted something with the slang term 'towel head' in it and had it deleted by the Forum Police, as it should have been. I shouldn't have said it. I admitted it then and now. I think the same of your post. You have slammed a rather huge crowd of folks for their religious beliefs and i suggest that you should either edit it out of your post or that the Forum Police should do that for you.
Comments
Quote of the day, "They weren't my medals, they were my ribbons, well, not my ribbons, but the ribbons others gave me, and we thought of medals and ribbons as the same thing, although what I threw were just the ribbons, but my medals were at home, and I realize 7 years ago I said they were mine, but it was a figure of speech, the collective 'mine', not mine, but representing mine, but it should not matter since it was 30 years ago and we should not be judging a man's participation on what he did 30 years ago, except, that is, in the case of G Bush, and we should judge his participation then, just not mine".
Oops. I promised myself not to fall into the trap of getting on this thread. It'll suck you down and eventually exhaust you, just like some of the others. Religion, flags, politics and sex........all of them should be banned from the Forum. Well, maybe not sex. Unless its political sex.
Its a can of worms without a doubt but not going in would not have necessarily been a better solution.
I'm voting for Bush. I am not a registered Republican but I vote pro-life, pro traditional values, and pro anything the ACLU is against.
While I am voting for the lesser of two evils, the contest isn't even close.
By the way, I think this will be a much discussed election which hopefully will bring out the voters.
We were attacked by members of Al Queda on 9/11/01. Intelligence suggested that Afghanistan was a country supporting such terrorism. We invaded...toppled the Taliban and moved on to Iraq--before locating Osama.
why? Because it had WMD's and could be an emminent threat. No link to Al Queda has been proven...which was the foundation of this war. The "we are better off without him" began once intelligence showed that no WMD's would be found.
Through the 9/11 commission we're hearing that a war against Iraq was predestined...we just needed a reason....which was provided by 9/11. I think this is supported by many statements made on the campaign trail, before the election.
I'm not saying that 9/11 could have been prevented...I don't think any mortal had that power to envision such an attack...it's just not how, we, as a nation, think about things...that's why it was so shocking and devastating.
As for Kerry....post-Vietnam was a horrible time...the troops returning suffered terribly at the hands of fellow Americans. They did not enjoy a valient homecoming and were not looked upon as heroes. I can certainly understand the frustration that must have eaten away at these young men that went to war at the country's bidding only to find themselves the enemy when they returned. Kerry seems to have acted as a spokesperson for the returning soldiers...so I would think that his comments reflect the group perhaps more than his personal opinion...but that is for him to clarify...
And I'm sure his thoughts and opinions have changed over the last 30 years....that latitude was given to Bush as the country overlooked his prior drug/alcohol abuse and saw him as he is now. Sometimes it seems like you must know in gradeschool that you'll want to be a politician so that you can carefully avoid pitfalls that impact the average guy.
Bottom line...both candidates have pros/cons....and this election, much like the last will boil down to who votes. It does count and it does matter! VOTE!
I voted for Ralph Nader last time, and I'll probably vote for him again. I really liked his Native American woman running mate last time.
Plus, Larry is right. I saw Ralph Nader on Saturday Night Live and he's actually kind of funny, and willing to poke fun at himself so he'd entertain us.
I absolutely detest both of those other two, we need a viable three (or four) party system....
Annie
[url]http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_24/b3887068.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_24/b3887070.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_24/b3887076.htm[/url]
My favorite quote:
“Demography, as the saying goes, may be destiny. But an archaic system of representation that includes a winner-take-all selection of electors and eschews proportionate representation at the local level is denying a voice to political minorities. Are you perchance one of the 2.4 million hardy Democrats living in Texas? You might as well hang up your political spurs. Since the Reagan era, Texas has become solidly Republican. Or perhaps you're a GOPer in New York or California, home to a combined 8.5 million members of the Grand Old Party. Tough luck, pal.”
#1 thing a consultant shouldn't say: "I could tell you the answer right now, but we're committed to a three month project..." #-o
If you read this far, thank you.
I must strenuously disagree. Having spent most of my military career in the JAG Corps, teaching pilots and combatants how to recognize and report violations of the law of armed conflict, it is EVERY servicemember's duty and obligation to report atrocities (either by us or by them) so the offenders can be dealt with. We are not animals and war has rules.
As far as Kerry's "four short months" in Vietnam, the fact remains that he has three purple hearts, a silver star and a bronze star. If you were wounded three times, you got an automatic pass if you wanted it. Nothing wrong with that. I would have taken it, too.
In any event, I appreciate your response as well as any others and appreciate being heard. Many years ago, I gave up trying to convert anyone to my opinions and rarely engage in a debate, written or in person, but felt compelled to express my own very personal opinion.
Again, thank you.
There are many of us out here and several on this forum, too.
I'm not sure what ABB and fundie mean. But, I'm just confused. x:-)
(edit) Ahh, someone just told me what a 'fundie Christian' means and that it's a derogatory term for those Christians who feel strongly that the Bible is a document of pure truth, as I understand the term. I once posted something with the slang term 'towel head' in it and had it deleted by the Forum Police, as it should have been. I shouldn't have said it. I admitted it then and now. I think the same of your post. You have slammed a rather huge crowd of folks for their religious beliefs and i suggest that you should either edit it out of your post or that the Forum Police should do that for you.