[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 11-22-04 AT 05:41PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Did anyone see the basketbrawl, and, what are your thoughts? If this were my workplace there would be no suspension, there would be termination. Shouldn’t these overpaid professionals be held to a higher standard? I opine the gangsters that went into the stands should be banned from sports for life! Of course on the flip side the legal system should run its course and those fans that broke the law should be prosecuted along with the players who participated in this fiasco. What happened to the good old days when sports icons and players alike were respected for their demeanor? OK, I know some sports are inherently violent and disagreements occur but what happened in this event has no excuse or explanation other than spoiled overpaid individuals who need put in their place. I wonder if they can spell jail. :-?


  • 35 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • The players union is going to fight some of the suspensions as being unfair. They are right too, the suspensions are unfair. Artest and others who went into the stands to fight should have longer suspensions - suspensions for life. Never play pro basketball again. That would be fair for their teammates, their teams, the fans and the sport. The sad thing is if Indiana were to fire Artest, some other team would pick him up and he would continue his 'gansta-rap' ways.
  • I saw the clip and I couldn't agree with you more Safety. However, I also think the fan that threw the ice & the others that got involved should be banned from attending b-ball games for life as well. Poor behavior all the way around.
  • Amen, Safety and mwild31. But justice won't be complete unless some Detroit fans get their season tickets revoked.

    What really gets my goat is what happened the next day with my beloved USC th-up Gamecocks xclap football team and our reviled arch-rivals, the Clemson th-down Tigers xx( . Near the end of the game, there was a 10-minute brawl so big that it covered half the football field. As punishment, Carolina and Clemson decided to decline their invitations to bowl games, which is a really big deal because we don't get invited very often. It's harsh, but it's the right thing.

    The real loser is Carolina Coach Lou Holtz. He was going to end his legendary career with the Clemson game, then a bowl game, then pass the reins to Steve Spurrier. Instead, his last game will be remembered for the ugly brawl. But he had the humor to joke that both Lou Holtz and Woody Hayes will be remembered for ending their coaching careers with a fight against Clemson.

    James Sokolowski
  • James, you are right. The brawl was an ugly ending to Lou's career. Didn't know you were a USC fan....that's my alma mata. Do you think the "chicken curse" will die with Spurrier or are the Gamecocks forever doomed?
  • Hey Sue2, I got my journalism degree from Carolina, and I still follow the Gamecocks best as I can from Nashville. I think Spurrier will be great for the team. Ever since George Rogers left (I'm showing my age), Carolina has had trouble scoring points. And the one thing Spurrier can do is light up the scoreboard, so I think he can end our obnoxious orange curse.

    James Sokolowski
  • >Hey Sue2, I got my journalism degree from
    >Carolina, and I still follow the Gamecocks best
    >as I can from Nashville. I think Spurrier will
    >be great for the team. Ever since George Rogers
    >left (I'm showing my age), Carolina has had
    >trouble scoring points. And the one thing
    >Spurrier can do is light up the scoreboard, so I
    >think he can end our obnoxious orange curse.
    >James Sokolowski

    Hi James & Sue:

    I, too, am a Carolina alumni and was horrified at the behavior of the two teams. What was even worse was opening up The State newspaper this past Saturday and one of the Clemson players stating that he would "do it again" if he had the chance! This was the guy who was kicking the Carolina player who was face down on the ground,no helmet and had his hands over his head.

    I also felt sorry for Lou Holtz who had to go out on a sorry note like this. He has done a lot for our community,not just the university and is a real class act. He deserved better!

    Glad the administration opted out of the bowl games. This is not the first time that Clemson and Carolina have clashed. I read that in the early 1900's the two teams were banned for about 8 or 9 years from playing each other because they had such a horrendous fight after one of the games. I stay as far away from this rivalry as possible. It can get downright dangerous. In fact, the last "live" football game I attended was the one where Woody Hayes decked the Clemson player.

    As bad as that was, I was sitting in the middle of some Clemson fans who were uproarously drunk and fighting with each other and rolling down flights of stairs. That was IT for me.

  • Accountability. There is no accountability for behavior among any of these guys who play professional basketball. They have never in their lives been accountable or been HELD accountable for behavior. Single parent households, multiple children by multiple women in multiple states and no marriages and society has rewarded all of this unaccountable behavior by condoning, ignoring and celebrating it. Give them Escalades, Gangsta Rap sessions, multi-million dollar contracts, fabulous houses for them and their mommas and demand no accountability and the beat goes on. Same with the way professional football is going. Dancing in the end zone, fur coats and hookers following them around, jacuzzis in their 9000 sq. ft. homes and hood ornaments larger than track trophies. Sports as an institution has gone to hell. But the biggest and most lasting down side of it all is the eleven year old boy who sees his uncle celebrating this crap and says, "Man, that's me in about eight years".
  • As a proud Hoosier, I can say with complete honesty that Artest should be banned from playing basketball for life. This display of his has put a bad name to basketball and to the Indiana Pacers.

    I have a more unsettling reason for wanting this to happened. I was at my grandson's basketball game on Sunday, and all that these young boys were talking about was how "cool" that fight was. I want people like Artest, (people who don't care about the impressions they are leaving on young kids) banned from their sport after the second offense.

    The Pacers season is pretty much over for this year, and it is all thanks to one man. I hope he enjoys his new 'music' career.

    Hoosiers still have one bright spot - we still have Peyton and the Colts!
  • I agree that the suspensions may be too light--particularly for Artest who has been suspended on several occasions.

    However, I think the "fans" who threw things should also be banned for life from attending another game. I, also, believe that alcohol should be banned. Finally, the American public should probably be retrained to understand that sports (at every level) should be fun. What ever happened to good sportsmanship?

  • I think every pro sports team should take a lesson from the Philadelphia Eagles. Does anyone remember the ice bowl (Dallas vs Eagles)? The fans pelted the Cowboys with snowballs, batteries, etc at Vet Stadium (I hated to see it go). That started the ball rolling to what we have today...NO ALCOHOL SERVED AFTER HALF TIME. We also had Eagles Court, a judge on premises. The cops would pull unrulies out of the stands and process them right there at the stadium. Now that we have the beautiful new stadium, I'm not sure (but I think) they still have it all in place. If not they should.

    Do these players not know that if it weren't for OUR HARD EARNED MONEY buying those tickets, they wouldn't be making the kind of money we dream about? Just look around the NFL, we've got drug dealers (Jamal Lewis - Ravens), murders (Ray Caruth - Panthers) and I'm sure a host of other lawbreaks that can be swept under the carpet. Do they not realize if not for the fans they would be common folk just like us!!!

    Sorry...I'll get of my soapbox now.
  • As a former season ticketholder for the Cleveland Indians, and having attended several Browns football games, I believe selling alcohol at sporting events should be banned (although we know it won't be). When you have hot-headed people at these events to begin with, mix that with lots of alcohol, you get people who can't control themselves. I've seen it many times and think this would be a starting point in controlling these unruly fans. I am so disgusted with the behavior of fans and players alike that I have quit going to professional sporting events. Most of the players are nothing more than overpaid, spoiled children.
  • Much of our entertainment falls into this category. Professional sports, Rock Stars and Movie stars. All receive huge dollars to entertain us. We put them on pedestals, some just because they are "bad boys" or "bad girls" - and in a society that measures success by the price of your toys and your fame, we send an unmistakeable message to our children and the rest of the world. Yet teachers and garbage collectors (for example) and all of those who work to hold the fabric of society together, the real unsung heros, are paid a comparative pittance. And as the Don paraphrased "...the beat goes on..."
  • I have to add that I see this type of behavior beginning in the pee-wee sports ranks. How many of you have attended your child's gaming event only to see parents berating each other, officials, coaches, and kids? How about kids whose parents hold them back in school just so they can be eligible for another playing season - NOT because they can't read or do the math? High school athletes are not held accountable for their bad behavior or poor academic performance because they play for the hometown team. It goes on and on and will continue to do so as long as parents, coaches, and fans allow these "gifted" individuals to act without consequence or accountability. These people with a false sense of entitlement don't just happen - they are cultivated and nurtured into what they are. Tall sociopathic infants.
  • That's a good one! 'Tall Sociopathic Infants'. TSI Syndrome. I worked with a man for years who, as an adult, would go around at meetings and drill a hole in people's plastic water glass with his knife blade and let out a whooop when the guys filled their glasses from the pitcher. Someone referred to him as 'a child in a man's body'. This is along the same lines as Zen's TSI Syndrome.

    There are even among us children who idolize complete wasted dunces like Ozzie Ozborne and Mick Jagger and that freak Tyson. And let's not forget Wilt 'The Stilt' Chamberlain who bragged a few years ago about bedding down something like 3000 women while he was playing with his ball. These types of behaviors are idolized by kids and always will be unless society imposes consequences and kids understand consequence, which most don't.

    This too will pass. But, I salute the commissioner for insisting that there be consequences and only hope he increases them.
  • A co-worker caught being interviewed one of the morning news shows. She say he wore a t-shirt with his record company's name and a hat with the record company's name. In between mentioning his album, he discussed his suspension (I gather he's not happy)(this is how I got the story from my co-worker who can be very cynical).

    In any case, it will be interesting to see if sales of the album increase.

  • I saw the interview on the Today show with Artest. If he played college ball he obviously did not attend classes, he couldn’t answer any of the questions presented to him. He kept saying, if we watched the tape we would see that it wasn’t his fault.

    If I put this behavior in my workplace, he would be fired right after we watched the tape. An employee who attacks a customer for any reason is not someone I want in my workplace regardless of the customer’s behavior. And if another team hires this person after he is fired, wouldn’t that team be liable for negligent hiring. Everyone knows that this person is a loose canon, has been suspended several times for fighting, if you hire him on another team and he goes after a fan or another player, the person being attacked could sue the team for negligent hiring. I would just to prove a point.

    I don’t go to professional ball games, I don’t watch them on TV and I try not to purchase things they advertise. I think the whole system is out of control, but we have the ability to put it back into control. It means you can’t watch your favorite team for a while.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 11-24-04 AT 04:57PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Well, you and the public may not be watching quite a few teams for awhile -- and Americans do not particularly like delayed gratification, you know.

    I have seen many brawls in sports (Hockey, in particular). Never quite the involvement of fans as in the fight that is the subject of this forum. Let us not forget, however, that there are many many fabulous and intelligent basketball players. Why try to paint them all with the same brush stroke. Seems I saw a few trying to minimize the ruckus, not participate in it. And why harp on the tremendous salaries some of the "superstars" command. It would be no less grievous if they were underpaid, IMHO.

    Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Besides, what would my husband do on Sundays, if he did not have his beloved football -- Go Skins (haha)
  • Many insightful comments, as always. I agree that the lengthy suspensions are on the mark. I would hope that the fans who acted as total morons are also prosecuted.
    I did have a new suggestion and that is - pro teams cannot draft a player until they have completed 4 years of college. The players, in the brawl, especially Ron Artest, lack social skills, and display a lack of respect for the world around them. Let them learn social skills in school and demonstarate them on the court, field, etc. Like so many things in this day & age, It's all about money. The owners of all sports need to get together and set some standards in order that they can create sports stars, who are also gentlemen.
  • I thought it was interesting that one sports columnist who thought the penalty was too harsh said "you wouldn't take away a man's right to earn a living in the real world and you shouldn't do it in sports".

    Last time I checked, engaging in a physical confrontation at work is considered extremely serious and could easily lead to termination or at least suspension.

    I'm done with pro basketball.

    Ok, so my list of things I am done with is growing: Dixie Chicks, Barabara Streisand, Andy Rooney, Dan Rather, Julia Roberts, Alec Baldwin, Bill Maher, any member of the Jackson family, Jerry Springer, Susan Sarandon, Linda Rondstadt, REM lead singer Michael Stipe, Michael Moore, Katie Couric, Sean Penn, did I mention Michael Moore?, most everything on TV, Sarah Jessica Parker, MTV, Janeane Garafalo, Al Franken, Extreme Makeover, and P Diddy.
  • Paul, you left out Heintz ketchup.
  • Maybe he didn't leave out Heinz ketchup - x;-) personally, it's the only kind I'll eat because it's the only kind on the market that tastes halfway decent.
  • Well Paul, at least you're still hanging out with us HR bottomfeeders on the forum.
  • Just curious why Katie Couric is on your list?

    You know the song - 1985 by Bowling for Soup?

    There's a line in there that says ...and music was still on MTV... I allways say to my kids "exaaaactly" why it has been banned from our house. They say "Yea, music USED to be on MTV, so, what's your point Mom?" It's totally frustrating.
  • Great song. I love then line, "Since when did Motley Crue become classic rock."
  • My impression of Couric is she is biased and condescending. Her interview of the President was disrespectful. She gave Michael Moore three consecutive mornings when Fahrenheit 9/11 came out. I have a suspicion she doesn't care for people like me so I suppose the feeling is mutual.
  • NBC has a definite liberal bias, in my opinion. If I ever want to get hopping mad, a few minutes of their slant on the "news" is all it usually takes. And this is from a guy who has some fairly liberal viewpoints and attitudes mixed in with my capitalistic perspective.
  • I'm cracking up right now! I don't think NBC is liberal at all - in fact, I think they've been too nice to President Bush - during the election and afterwards. As to Katie - I think she & Matt are way too easy on the conservative folks. Maybe, just maybe, this network has hit the nail on the head with objective journalism if they can anger conservatives and liberals alike with EACH side claiming the network caters to the "other side"?
  • "pro-teams cannot draft a player until they have
    completed 4 years of college. The players, in
    the brawl, especially Ron Artest, lack social
    skills, and display a lack of respect for the
    world around them."

    Complete 4 years of college or graduate from college? If the player is any good at all they will be on a full scholorship and more than likely will be red shirted so it will be a minimum of 5 years.
    I see where you are going and it might help, BUT.... I fear that how these players were spoiled and spoon fed in high school will not come close to how they will be "handled" at the college level where many more dollars are at stake. From coaches demanding the players receive passing grades, to special majors developed for each, such as "Out-Door Leisure Activies" and of course the tutor that is assigned to each player to ensure they get up and go to class and at least turn in some home work, that was probably completed by the tutor and the lists go on an on.
    Is this stero-typing? It just seems that the good guys don't make the news. It has been a while since I heard of the Academic All-American players.
    If it was easy, anyone could do it....
  • Hi Dutch:

    Stereotypes - Fixed and distorted generalizations; rigid judgements, often used to support and reinforce prejudices.

    Let's all exhale and take a look at the hundreds of players on the pro-teams. Even most of the super-stars do not fit the Artest mode. Perhaps it may be more helpful to go the route that someone mentioned above -- teaching and then demanding proper social and coping skills; rather than making it lucrative (I mean owners, businesses, schools, etc., as well as players) to overlook poor and anti-social behavior in people just because they are super talented, or beautiful, or gifted.
  • Dasher, really! Are you suggesting that the owners of these people's contracts should be about the business of taking them aside and enrolling them into social-skills-classes or parenting classes or some sort of 'finishing school' or 'charm school' as it were? People like these buffoons have skated through life perfecting copulating skills and have no inclination to polish up coping ones. x:-)
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