Kerry's Military Discharge
Don D
9,834 Posts
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-21-04 AT 02:53PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Unlike McCain, Bush, and Gore, Kerry has adamantly refused to authorize the release of hismilitary records. Most think it's because of his phony battle medals. I think the real reason is he was not granted an Honorable Discharge until March 2001, almost 30 years after his ostensible service term had ended!
This is very much out of the ordinary, and highly suspect. There are 5 classes of discharge: Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, Bad
Conduct,and Dishonorable. My guess is that he was Discharged in the '70s, but not Honorably. He appealed this sometime while Clinton was doing
trouser-tricks in the Oval Office. Political pressure was applied, and the Honorable Discharge was then granted.
His file is probably rife with reports of this, submissions and hearings on the appeal, reports of his "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy, along with protests that were filed with respect to his alleged valor under fire.
Otherwise, why would he refuse to let his record be released and published? Oh, I forgot; things that happened 35 years ago don't matter today. Sorry I brought it up.
Let me give credit where credit is due. This came to me at noon from a retired Colonel here in my town who had a command until recently. I have no idea as to its authenticity, much like all of the allegations that are being made by both sides. But, it is at least as worth of consideration and investigation as the comment about Bush's girlfriend's abortion, don't we think?
Notwithstanding TN HR's comments, what do we think might be the reasons that Kerry has steadfastly refused publication of his military record and discharge document?
This is very much out of the ordinary, and highly suspect. There are 5 classes of discharge: Honorable, General, Other Than Honorable, Bad
Conduct,and Dishonorable. My guess is that he was Discharged in the '70s, but not Honorably. He appealed this sometime while Clinton was doing
trouser-tricks in the Oval Office. Political pressure was applied, and the Honorable Discharge was then granted.
His file is probably rife with reports of this, submissions and hearings on the appeal, reports of his "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy, along with protests that were filed with respect to his alleged valor under fire.
Otherwise, why would he refuse to let his record be released and published? Oh, I forgot; things that happened 35 years ago don't matter today. Sorry I brought it up.
Let me give credit where credit is due. This came to me at noon from a retired Colonel here in my town who had a command until recently. I have no idea as to its authenticity, much like all of the allegations that are being made by both sides. But, it is at least as worth of consideration and investigation as the comment about Bush's girlfriend's abortion, don't we think?
Notwithstanding TN HR's comments, what do we think might be the reasons that Kerry has steadfastly refused publication of his military record and discharge document?
Comments
I am not necessarily a Kerry fan, however, your post appeared strange. I say that because it was my personal experience during military service that officers usually did not receive anything less than honorable unless there was actual UCMJ (uniform code of military justice) and/or court martial actions in conjunction with their separation from the service.
Furthermore, I can't imagine someone leaving the military without a characterization of service (what you refer to as type of discharge). In any event, a quick google search yielded the following results:
[url]http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf[/url]
Both of his DD214's show honorable discharges.
So, the document does not show his service during Vietnam.
>showing his discharge from enlisted status right
>before attending Officer school. There is only
>4 months of service listed, one school attended
>and no duty positions served in remarks section.
> The date of the discharge was 1966 not in the
>70's as it would be if it included his time
>served during Vietnam.
>
>So, the document does not show his service
>during Vietnam.
Surely you haven't forgotten about attention to detail x}>
Keep scrolling..........
I turn on the tube and what do I see A whole lotta people cryin' 'Don't blame me' They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves Get over it Get over it All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit Get over it, get over it
And all this mouth I have - coming from a Republican at that.
As far as siding the enemy, we should be thankful that he spoke up against a war that devestated this country. Have the courage to admit that he was right - Vietnam was a mistake.
Compare his service with that of Airman Bush. Look at his record.
With that being said, let's bring them home from Iraq also.
We can't compare Bush's military records to Kerry's since Kerry won't authorize their disclosure. As far as I can tell, he is the only politician of note that refuses to release his military records.
Bush's entire military career (as limited as it was) is under intense scrutiny. Following his return from Vietnam, what did Kerry do for the last several years of his six year commitment? At the time of Kerry's enlistment he had one of three basic options to follow: 1. Enlist and serve a four year active duty tour and two year reserve duty commitment, 2. Get drafted and serve a two year active tour and four year reserve commitment, or 3. Get accepted into a Guard or Reserve unit. Bush obviously took option three. Kerry supposedly took option one. Bush's less than great record is on the table for all to see. What did Kerry do to complete his service? You can't answer that because Kerry won't release his records. He served less than three years of a 4-6 year obligation. Bush also served less than his full obligation, but the reasons for that (whether we agree with them or not) are public record. Common sense says that if Kerry's records didn't contain some less than honorable data then Kerry would want them released just to put this issue to rest if for no other reason.
On a related issue, it's interesting how the media has scrutinized every minute of Bush's military service, but has ignored most of Kerry's service. In fact the media has ignored or not published any info on Kerry other than the info Kerry has asked them to publish, i.e., his three Purple Hearts, none of which required even a visit to a hospital. (A very lucky soldier??) How and when did Kerry fulfill his military obligations? Where and to whom did he report? We know the answers to all of these questions regarding President Bush. We don't know the answers to any of these questions in regards to Sen Kerry and what's really sad is that so many Kerry supporters don't seem to care!
I'm not a big Bush fan as you probably derive from my post, but I will vote for Bush primarily because I feel I can trust him and I honestly don't trust Kerry. I can accept mistakes. I can't accept dishonestly and a lack of integrity. If I had my way Colin Powell would have been elected President in 1996. Like him or not, I don't think there's a more honest or trusted politician in America and as I see it, honesty and trust is what this election has come down to. Bush wins on this issue if for no other reason.
Sorry about the length of this post. I quess, like everyone else, I'm more concerned about this election than any I've ever voted in and I'm 58.
This argument is not about the wisdom of the Viet Nam war, Bill. I felt it was insane as well. But, I welcomed home several friends who were shot up and buried several others who probably, with their last breath, wondered why the f*** they were shot. Kerry was a chicken sh** with his theatrical reaction to that war. Now he attempts to spin it all in his favor. It won't work.
"Opinions are like a**holes, everyone has one."
And just for the record Don, you really do put down everyone's opinion that isn't the same as yours.
Do you realize that due to Kerry and OTHERS the war was extended by at least 1yr. Can you imagine how many soldiers died during that time fathers, brothers, sons, uncles, husbands, friends. I am not saying we should have been there in the first place BUT once we are don't give the enemy a boost in moral by seeing dissent in America. No problem to do so but wait until after ALL soldiers have returned home.
In 1985 a high ranking general for Viet Nam stated that Hanoi would have fallen if it wasn't for the protesting here in America and that is why they have a picture of Kerry in the Vietnam War Museum.
Did you also know that POW's were told by their captures that they were considered war criminals and they would be played tapes of Kerry speaking to Congress during their captivity which lastest for some over 5 yrs? OVER 70 POW's Recognizing Kerry's voice from the tapes to the man who wants to be President.
Can you imagine how the Vietnam Veterans must feel? To come home from a war and be spit on, afraid to wear their uniforms in public. Can you imagine? Maybe you should talk to some of them and find out what they think of Kerry.
JMO,
Lisa
For the record???? Are you serious?
People will work hard, very hard, on either side, to try and discredit the opponent with nonsense totally unrelated to the issue at hand. Forget the fact that it doesn't stand the common sense test!
I may not care for Kerry and I may not vote for Bush (how's that for non-partisan), but the fact is that his friggin' DD214 is posted on his website for cryin' out loud! What part of that is "refusing to release discharge papers or service records"? Are you wanting to see charts on the results and/or observations made during his prostate and hernia exams?
So he had a two year service remaining obligation after active duty, big deal! So did I, I spent it in the individual ready reserve! Sorry guys, there is NOTHING to prove what I did in the individual ready reserve not because I am hiding something but because it doesn't mean ANYTHING! It's a friggin' paper, a list, a status if you will. It just means you can be recalled up until that date!
Sorry for my rant but this is what infuriates me about this election! Everyone is wrapped around the axle discussing missing documents, service dates, girlfriend abortions, etc and the real issues are not even being discussed. I guess that when you remove all of the Jerry Springer sensationalism you're left with two fairly boring individuals.
Gene
You're right but unfortunately due to all the media hype and because there is no clear choice you have to disect everything about both of the choices.
My feeling is citizens should have more choices than just 2 people/parties for this very powerful position but I am only one person. Although we have others running none are considered a threat to the main candidates only spoilers.
Can't wait until November 3rd. then we will live with the outcome for 4 yrs and do it all over again. Yippeee
Gene - thanks for your help!
Wow! Talk about blasting someone. You did better than Don or I could have ever done.
I hope you didn't go home and kick the dog.
No, I didn't kick my dog. I have 4 dogs and I was actually so tired that I went home and cuddled up with them for a nap. See, I'm not all bad! xI-)
Being against a war is one thing. Giving comfort to the enemy is another. But, my judgement ability has certainly changed since 1971, so I have to assume his has as well. Not very many of us would want to be judged totally on our 1970s behavior, would we? Well, with the exception of Ray, who has always been a saint. x:-)
Oh, and as to the continual discussion of the subject of Kerry's record and discharge, WWind, that just happens to be the title of this particular thread, so what we're actually doing, girls, is staying on point.
And that's not shrapnel the x-ray reveals in Kerry's leg. That's a chip Theresa had put there to track him. Wait, I must be quiet and listen..right now (Sunday 11:30) on Fox he's speaking to a black AME church in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, sort of pulpit politics in the house of God. Maybe this will count as the congregation's spiritual message for this week. What was that vague IRS regulation about a church losing its tax exempt status if it makes political endorsements?
Said with all seriousness - that law applies only to consevative churches. Liberal churches for some reason are exempt from the law, they are allowed impunity by groups such as the ACLU and others of their ilk as long as their political speech is of a liberal bent. For the past several weeks there have been 'spies', particularly in the midwest, who have been attending churches with the intent of catching them in the act of political speech - problem is, they are only concerned about the churches whose political speech is conservative in nature - liberals are allowed to say whatever they want. Then these churches are "turned in" for their illegal political activity and they become subject to lose their tax exempt status. Shades of Communist USSR - and it is happening right here in the good ole USA.
I talked with my 2 cousins one of which is a retired Col. in Army and the other is the son of Bridger Gen in Marines (All 3 of which served in Viet Nam),my Father who was a POW in WWII, my newphew who was in the Navy in Dessert Storm, and my sister whose boyfriend was killed in Viet Nam. Not one of them had ever heard of the "excuse" Kerry used to "get out of Viet Nam". (2 of these 3 were wounded in Viet Nam more than once and have purple hearts etc.) I guess you can say Kerry was a smart cookie and was planning his election even back then. Also, none of them can discuss Kerry's military background other than what Kerry has released about his purple hearts, 4 months in Vietnam, and his "wounds". (My sister who is a BIG Kerry lover, didn't even know he just served 4 yrs. in Viet Nam. I don't know what rock she has been hiding under. Three of these are for Kerry, 2 for Bush.)
I too am not in favor of war to solve problems, but sometimes it is inevitable.
I just don't trust someone who wears his "military career" on his sleeve, especially when he won't even tell us the truth about what it truly was. If he is so proud of what he did in Vietnam (and those that served should be proud of themselves and their sacrifices), why won't he tell us his entire story and release his military history.
E Wart