SPEAKING OF OREGON

Don D

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 03-04-04 AT 02:18PM (CST)[/font][br][br].

Parabeagle

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 03-03-04 AT 02:43PM (CST)[/font][br][br][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 03-03-04 AT 02:40 PM (CST)[/font]

This development just started today and so Cinderella could not have put it in her "ode to Oregon."

Two factors in play here: Only the most populous and most liberal county in Oregon (Multnomah County) is issuing licenses. I doubt any other counties in Oregon will follow suit.

Second, Oregon's law defines marriage as follows: "...a contract between males 17 years of age or older and females 17 years of age or older and otherwise qualified..." or words to that effect. It didn't say BETWEEN a man and a woman, or BETWEEN a male and a female, which is tighter language and less open to interpretation.

edit: Interestingly enough, a local television news poll shows that locals disagree with the Council's decision to permit same-sex marriage 67 percent to 33 percent.

ray a

The mayor of a the NY city that was marrying gays last Friday is being prosecuted because they were not licensed. Of the 28 or so marriages he performed, he is being prosecuted for only 19 because that is all the police observed.

marc

And as these licensees began to immigrate to all the other states, we will all get to deal with the impacts. Get to know your insurance carriers policies with regard to these unions and be ready to modify as required, your policies with respect to sick leave, etc. We folks in HR will get to deal directly with these ripples.

Cinderella

Beagle is right - it was "leaked" last night and "announced" today.
I don't really see what all the fuss is about either way. I just don't really care if gay/lesbian people get married. It doesn't affect my life.

ritaanz

This is going to be one major headache for all of us sooner or later.

ritaanz

I have already seen "guidelines" and "affidavits" for domestic partner benfits. I look at it this way, broadens my horizons. Although it gives me more info than I care to have.

Parabeagle

I have no strong feelings one way or another about gay marriage - however, I am ABSOLUTELY opposed to anything that creates more paperwork for me in the benefits area and I smell a Weyerhauser truckload of paperwork coming down the road at me. Anything that makes me have to work harder is to be avoided at all costs. x;-)

ritaanz

Come 'ere Beaglepuss, you sound stessed. There, there take a deep breath and relax. Here's a
xhugs to get you in a warm and fuzzy mood. Better?

Parabeagle

Awwwww... thanks, ritaanz. Much better now. x:-)

SMace

Ritaanz, I'm glad to see you have started to take my advice and even better you are passing it along.

ritaanz

Who are you? You don't know me. I do NOT take advice from strangers.

SMace

blah, blah, blah. Moving on.........

Cinderella

My head isn't in the clouds. I don't deal with benefits at my job, I don't care if people are gay, I don't care if people are married or single or pink with purple polka-dots. It doesn't make any difference to me. I've got my own life to lead and that doesn't include worrying about who's doing what in their bedrooms or marriage ceremonies and whether it's considered legal or not.

ritaanz

Cin, benefits is not the only arena this effects. Try FMLA. How about COBRA? ERISA? Title VII? To name a few. Sooner or later you will have "to deal" with the challenge.

ritaanz

Don, that's exactly the point. This is much deeper than we realize.

Whatever

You could ask the same questions about serial Brides and grooms. You could ask the same question about young girls who are uneducated because they had to drop out of school when they got pregnant. You could ask the same question of people who live together for years and never marry.
As an HR person, the cost of gay marriages will hurt. However, frankly, I don't care. I am more affected by other issues-the economy, the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, possibly Haiti etc., the fact that N. Korea does have wmd, the non-quality of education in this country, the inappropriate material on TV during family viewing hours etc., etc.

ritaanz

Isn't there room for one more concern?

Cinderella

You haven't offended me - I'm not a democrate or a republican.

Everyone has their own definition of what a family is and what values are. If you feel gay/lesbian marriage is a destruction of family values then you're certainly entitled to your opinion - I'm just saying that I don't feel that way. I don't think it's super-neato either - I just don't care. I know that to me, when I say "I want to have a family someday" that means meeting a man and getting married and adopting children. All I care about is my definition of it and what I plan to do with MY life, not what other people do. I guess I'm self centered, but that's okay with me.

Cinderella

I don't CARE so I am not affected. I'm not saying I will never know a man who's married to another man or a woman who's married to another woman or that I will never come accross a situation at work where I have to say, "hold on a sec, what's the law again? Do I understand it? Do I need help interpretting this particular situation?" I'm saying politically, emotionally, and spiritually I am not affected by this - because I just don't care.

HRsage

The thing that concerns me the most at this point is the blatant disregard for the law that elected officials are conducting. Why isn't anything being done about this?

There has been over 3400 marriages in San Fran since Feb when this all started and nothing has been done to stop the mayor up there.
I know if I had broken the law 3400 times in less than a month I'd be in serious trouble.

Whatever your opinion is on gay marriage, we all must respect the laws that are set forth and challenge them within the bounds of the legal system. To do otherwise is a recipe for anarchy.

Parabeagle

I agree, and many people here in Oregon are hopping mad about this unilateral decision made by the County council. Four individuals acting alone and without seeking opinions or holding public hearings made a decision that affects every Oregonian (and not coincidentally those of us in HR). Unfortunately, they are doing so under the color of "consultation with the county attorney" who proclaimed that the law was too vaguely written to prohibit same-sex marriages. So, technically, it could be argued that extending the law to include such marriages was actually only institutionalizing a protection already afforded under the statute.

ray a

First, Amen to Don's comments in post #16 above. And yes Whatever, along with gay marriages, we have many other problems such as "young girls who are uneducated because they had to drop out of school when they got pregnant", 50% divorce rates, illegitimate children that all contribute to the decay of our society. I see gay marriage as one more nail in the proverbial coffin.

As I posted earlier, NY is doing something about the mayor of New Palz (located just north of NYC) who last week married a couple dozen gays. He is being charged with 19 counts of criminal misdemeanors subject to up to 2 years in jail. The NY Attorney General has declared his actions illegal. Something is being done.

Whatever

Actually, New Paltz is located about 75-80 miles north of New York City. For some of us, that is a world away.

Whatever

In New York, the attorney general stated that though he does not agree with the law, the law states that marriage is between a man and woman. Therefore, the mayor of New Paltz has been charged with, I believe, 19 counts for conducting marriages. Of course, the mayor is clearly "enjoying" his 15 minutes of fame.

marc

So now all of Don D's comments have been edited out? What's up with that?

SMace

I agree Marc, that is an absolute load of crap! There are people with differing opinions and both have a right to those opinions. I will bet anything that the people that complained are the one's that sit back and read and don't have the guts to post. Grow some skin and realize that everyone doesn't think your way. If you can't go to another thread!

Whatever

I would like to know if Don was censored or did he censor himself.

ray a

The box is still there for post #16, so it must be self censorship. Makes my last post meaningless.

SMace

Good point. If that is true I hereby retract my tirade. What's up Don? I think the forum mafia may have kidnapped him and made him edit his posts. Is that true?

HRsage

No, all the post boxes are gone now. I don't think Don did it to himself. He's probably back on probation. Some people just can't handle other people's opinions.