Online I-9 Verification, a.k.a. SAVE (Your Time) Pilot
TN HR
1,170 Posts
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE!
Attention FORUM:
After careful consideration I decided to give this SAVE PILOT program a try. Originally I said I would not unless it became mandatory. Well, thanks to the wise guidance from PORK1 who was kind enough to guide me, OVER THE PHONE, on how to proceed, I was able to get everything done, MOU signature page faxed, tutorial taken, MASTERY ACHIEVED!
Now, it is with great disappointment that I report to the Forum that the system is flawed, does not pass muster and I doubt that I will continue to use it. Allow me to tell you why:
-Too much data entry. Potential for a lot of time-consuming "resolution" and "CASE CLOSED" steps should you not get an immediate "EMPLOYMENT AUTHORIZED".
Most importantly, however, I conducted my own test using the information of a known undocumented employee whom I had to terminate upon finding out he was using an assumed identity.
Here are the results of my test:
Known facts:
-Employee used the name, gender, DOB and SSN of a US citizen.
-He got a false I-551 (great fake with holograms and all that jazz), with the above info, HIS picture and with a bogus, randomly made-up A#.
Steps taken:
-I entered the individual into the SAVE system.
Results:
-EMPLOYMENT AUTHORIZED.
Nice try, US GOVERNMENT, but it's back to the drawing board. I will cancel my participation in the PILOT SAVE YOUR TIME program.
Gene
Attention FORUM:
After careful consideration I decided to give this SAVE PILOT program a try. Originally I said I would not unless it became mandatory. Well, thanks to the wise guidance from PORK1 who was kind enough to guide me, OVER THE PHONE, on how to proceed, I was able to get everything done, MOU signature page faxed, tutorial taken, MASTERY ACHIEVED!
Now, it is with great disappointment that I report to the Forum that the system is flawed, does not pass muster and I doubt that I will continue to use it. Allow me to tell you why:
-Too much data entry. Potential for a lot of time-consuming "resolution" and "CASE CLOSED" steps should you not get an immediate "EMPLOYMENT AUTHORIZED".
Most importantly, however, I conducted my own test using the information of a known undocumented employee whom I had to terminate upon finding out he was using an assumed identity.
Here are the results of my test:
Known facts:
-Employee used the name, gender, DOB and SSN of a US citizen.
-He got a false I-551 (great fake with holograms and all that jazz), with the above info, HIS picture and with a bogus, randomly made-up A#.
Steps taken:
-I entered the individual into the SAVE system.
Results:
-EMPLOYMENT AUTHORIZED.
Nice try, US GOVERNMENT, but it's back to the drawing board. I will cancel my participation in the PILOT SAVE YOUR TIME program.
Gene
Comments
Thanks for trying it out before I wasted my time.
Since pORK appears to be the national pilot person for this and he's been on top of it from day one, perhaps he can exert some influence on Washington to move this forward.
Gene
Based on your previous stand on this subject with "confirmed documentation to employ" and authorized to continue the hiring situation and full incorporation of the "foreign national" into your company you would be out beating the bushes to bring that "employee back to the time card". Just maybe your first identification of an illegal alien was incorrect!
Don: OH GREAT ONE AND KNOW IT ALL!!! Your post is totally un-necessary; you have found another opportunity to pat yourself on the back, at my expense and to lamblast our government's actions to do something good. I remain confident that the SAVE program will work for future real test of appropriate data. I will be doing my first one in a few minutes and I will come back to report the outcome.
It will remain a Blessed day for us all inspite of those with "black & blue hearts".
PORK
The MOU's instructions on not going back and testing previously hired people has nothing to do with the accuracy, but rather it is based on law. You simply cannot re-verify people whom you have already verified and accepted.
I also disagree with your conclusion that perhaps the illegal employee was not really illegal at all and I should get him back on the clock. The only problem with that theory is that he is currently in a DHA regional detention facility awaiting deportation proceedings.
I know this is an emotional deal for you. I understand how attached you are to this. I am also aware of your selfless service and devotion to this pilot program since inception. However, I hate to be the one who breaks the news to you, but my original assessment stands. The system is flawed, it is unreliable and anyone who uses it needs to be aware of these facts. The most you will ever get out of this is a false sense of security.
Gene
The help line is 1-888-464-4218, you probably should be calling them to determine where you problem is! You are registering an inquiry with each action and you are posting proof of your "failed actions" and you should find out why, before they come asking you why you are testing the system with persons you are not hiring. The case verification number for my first case is: 2005133100611ZV. Do you have one for your first trial, and one for each of your additional trials from which you write your damning "post" about this failed US Government System?
If I did not know better, you are speaking/writing out against our government's programs that are wired to fix a major immigration issue. You are out here, open and clear, across our nation with negative garbage to whom ever from CA to Maine to FLA to MS. What gives???
I appreciated your telephone call this morning, I'm sorry I gave you the ability to put the rope around your neck while you leaped into the unknown. I should have realized that your's was the call of evil, just looking for a place to again stick PORK with more than a knife and a fork.
How serious does the government take their programs? It is pretty serious when the Project Manager for the SSA comes to a little farming company in Mississippi to check on our use of the system and questions everyone of the entries. Never was I so shocked that they asked me for the hiring action of the one employee that was not ours, I had none. I came clean and told them what I had done to help a fellow HR, I never dreamed, that out of a record of several hundred that this one record would come up for question. Isn't it amazing how "wrong does not make a right". I have never again processed an inquiry of anyone with whom we have not had a direct effort on going to hire. I will do the same with this program.
It is pretty serious when I write the President of these United States, the two Senators of our state and my House of Presentative, the Governor of Mississippi and the Project Manager for SSA to let them know of the greatness of the SSA program and how it should be tied to the INS inorder to properly verify the work permits/SSN/Names, etc. of people on our soil. I don't take credit for that but here it is.
Yes, to all of your thoughts of my involvement in our government's actions to fix a major immigration and employment issue. I am a professional HR with my feet on the ground of this issue and I want it to come out for the betterment of all HRs, even "you and Don", for you represent an employer just like me and hundreds of US Citizen's employed and unemployed, who need a job.
The fix is coming and we are right on the edge of it and you should best clear away for fear the sharp edge might get alittle to close. A quick resignation from the MOU is properly a good decision on your part. Your company can then rejoin the MOU, when required to do so. You can then tell you senior leadership of your bad experiences with this effort and ask that they appoint a new company administrator.
It remains a Blessed day for me! I feel very satisfied with my accomplishments. Everyone have a nice weekend.
PORK
I am sorry if you do not like the news I reported. I feel that I made an honest, sincere and reasonable effort to proceed with an open mind and try the system. I reported my findings. You call them "damning" of our government. Whatever.
Bottom line, and I will say it one last time. The Basic SAVE Pilot is flawed. Seriuosly so. Your lobbying efforts are commendable, however, they mean nothing to me if the system which they helped create is worthless.
Gene
(edit) I can actually make no sense of any of PoRk's eight paragraphs above. None. But I wish him well with his presidential appointment. Is this a cabinet-level position?
"I wish him well with his presidential appointment', you know that is a "bold face lie", if I am right in the development of this SAVE PROGRAM and it is provided to you as a processing demand, you will have posted your negative action to this person and the SAVED program, YOU DO NOT WISH ME WELL, AND YOU KNOW IT!
Why don't you just lighten up and sit on the side lines and watch me dig my self a grave from which you could then write "I told you so" instead of using your position of authority on ever subject ON THIS FORUM TO PUT OLE PORK AND YOUR GOVERNMENT DOWN. I have done alot of things well over the last 45 years, and I will once again do things right, as well, this time.
HAVE A NICE DAY!
Pork
I am now waiting on the NON-CONFIRMED notice; this morning I received a tenative non-confirmed notice on my first case, a real live working employee in accordance with the MOU.
I will up-date everyone when I do get the actual notice to the employee in my hand.
PORK
That's exactly what I did, Pork. Notice that I kept the tone of my thread very neutral so as to not give the perception that I was somehow biased and set the system up to fail.
I conducted my own experiment out of due dilligence and because I needed a certain comfort level with this system. I reported my findings. You don't like my findings because you choose to internalize this as a personal failure due to your lengthy and extensive involvement in the project.
I wish you well in your continued trial and support of the system. I have made the decision not to continue until these flaws are corrected, if ever. Continuing to rely on a system which has failed an audit and validation process is, at best, irresponsible and probably borders on negligent.
Today will be a good day, with or without the SAVE system because I ate PORK at all three meals yesterday!
Gene
Pork has valuable comments as well and I, for one, like to hear them. Please tone down the antagonism.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm, 8 posts, relatively new to the Forum and already, "customary arrogant yada yada, yada. Are you serious?
Before you jump into the fray, I would check some history. Take a week and catch up on the older posts. Then you may have an opinion.
I just don't know why if you disagree with Don you must be subjected to the insults and name-calling. An employee who behaved like he does would be considered a problem employee, wouldn't he?
REPENT! ReAd LeViTiCuS.
I object to the caliber of this post on the grounds that it is unhelpful.
I awould also apologize to Superlative for getting too carried away with my post. Just because I may not like the message, I need to embrace it for what it is-dialogue.
May everyone have a great day!
Gene
05-17-05, 06:14 AM (CST)
8 total posts
20. "RE: Online I-9 Verification, a.k.a. SAVE (Your Time) Pilot"
Okay. I understand. Let me try again. Concerning your post in this thread, copied below,
REPENT! ReAd LeViTiCuS.
"I object to the caliber of this post on the grounds that it is unhelpful."
DD's Reply:
For the sake of clarification, and only for that reason, I will respond. Had you been paying attention the three years you've been in the bleachers or even the past three months, you would know that a post that is indented below and to the right of the one above it, is made in response to THAT post. My response, which you accurately quote above, was made to TN HR. For your benefit, Leviticus is the portion of the Bible where it is said that some animals should not be eaten. HRinNH originally brought this up some months ago and we have, with good humor and due respect to Leviticus, had some fun with that since then. Nothing harmful to anyone has ever been implied or meant by this. This had absolutely nothing to do with PoRk, but, was made in response to a lighthearted remark by Gene. You might do well to sheathe your horns until you have a good grip on your thoughts, otherwise, the result will always be the same.
Again, if you find that I have offered unsound advice on the Forum or that my comments contradict labor law or good practice, please, weigh in and post your recommendation or opinion. But, don't waste your time with the silly notion of modifying my behavior. And if you can rest from your hurry-scurry busy HR duties for three minutes and reread this entire thread, you will find that it is the gentleman from Tennessee who has objected strongest to Mr. PoRk's 'advice'. x:-)
(edit) Hmmm. First National Bank of Omaha, Nebraska. They have those in KC?
I have great respect for your HR knowledge, wisdom and experience and I'm enriched because you share it. Thanks.
Please do not judge us so quickly.
karene, VT
05-25-04, 01:47 PM (CST)
10 total posts
22. "RE: Prenatal visits"
Don D-I'm appalled at your attitude about FMLA and employees' milking it for every hour they're entitled to.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I suggest counseling or surgery, whichever will work to remove that terrible chip from your shoulder. It is obvious to me that you are unable to be in the sandbox with others. But, thank you for making me feel special. I have to go to the dentist's office now. x:-)
I hate this thread! Stop bumping it to the top and let it die.