[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 03-23-05 AT 08:24AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Now there's a novel approach. One I assume applies also to gas?
But seriously, crawfod, let's assume, as in the original post, YOU are the person in charge of the dinner engagement. Surely you would not base your dining etiquette on that of the person you had invited for a dinner interview. The question here is whether YOU think it appropriate to load your right hand fork with something like bread in your left hand. Remember now, white table cloth, coat and tie, socks, the whole bit.
Actually, Don, I was responding to Sam's post which said, "The question is: "Is it proper to assist the remaining orts from one's plate with the assistance of a piece of bread?" I was tempted then to nitpick the failure of her question to address the setting--home, cafe, fast food, blue jeans, coat and tie, etc., but I didn't.
Now you've added, "The question here is whether YOU think it appropriate to load your right hand fork with something like bread in your left hand. Remember now, white table cloth, coat and tie, socks, the whole bit." To your question, I would respond No, because you've established a sophisticated setting.
As to the original topic, an interview should focus on an exchange of information that, in my opinion, can best be served in a business setting, not at a meal hour. But after the formal job interview, if lunch or dinner fits in, other than obviously unacceptable crude behavior from professionals, I can adjust. Again, the sophistication of the eatery plays a part.
Geeeeeeze Sam! See what you started? Manners, smanners, Who would believe that a gent from MS can dictate table etiquette. This is the guy that shaved his head, hauled a dead tree into his back yard, fries turkeys and believs in the Easter bunny.
I bet a dozen donuts he uses any instument within reach.
Oh, the vote....I believe it is perfectly permissable to use a piece of bread to assist a morsel of food onto your fork.
In a fine dining environment, it is not considered proper to push food onto one's fork with either bread or knife. Neither should a diner wield a fork in a clubbed fist, eat steak off the end of a knifepoint, stick the whole bowl of a soup spoon into their mouth, or pinch the bottoms of the waitstaff.
There are rules for everything from how to butter your bread or roll (tear a piece of bread, don't cut it - dab butter onto torn bits of bread as they are consumed, smearing is considered gauche)to how to signal waitstaff to clear your course by the manner in which you lay down your utensiles. (tines up vs. tines down and utensiles crossed over the plate)
When I'm out I can do it, but when I'm at home or my favorite riverside BBQ joint it's a whole other ballgame and all bets are off!
I would not personally push or pull my food onto my fork -- using other food or utensil -- in order to get to every last bite.
If someone with whom I am dining delicately used the bread or another utensil (knife, etc.) to gather every morsel of food onto the fork, they would not receive a demerit from me.
If someone with whom I am dining, causes food to run all over their plate or the table, they would receive one demerit.
If they used their hands to pick up the food (like corn), two demerits.
Using bread or anything else to sop the gravy - no need to talk further.
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 03-24-05 AT 09:26AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Hey, Lets all move to Japan or China. This discussion would never take place. I vote that it is o.k. to use chopsticks for those last orts!
I can think of good reasons to vote no and good reasons to vote yes.
Here's another question. If I think it's o.k. to salt you food before eating it am I obligated to say yes to the bread and fork maneuver? All I really care about is the salt!
Do salt junkies retrieve all the salt orts with a mushed piece of bread?
So many voters here are sitting on the fence and saying they do in some cases and wouldn't in others. The real question regarded a more-less formal, or at least stressful dinner with a client or potential employee and a boss or manager, not tailgaiting or eating Kentucky Fried chicken in the bottom of a 14 foot john boat with your hair in curlers. Get real people, it just ain't proper in that setting to be motoring around your plate with a hunk of bread pretending it's a front-end loader.
After tabulation and announcement of the results on this question (by the always trusted Sam), we'll move along to whether or not it's appropriate to leave the cash register with a toothpick in your mouth.
I've been holding my breath waiting for the toothpick debate. One may take a toothpick upon leaving the restaurant but wait until you are outside, preferably alone in your car before using.
Well, out here where we have been exposed to another type of cuisine, it is quite alright to sop up stuff with a tortilla. A folded up tortilla does wonders with remaining salsa and mole (pronounced mole-a)- that's the spicy, slightly chocolaty flavored, sesame-seeded stuff that covers chicken and anything else that you can cover it with. Hurrah!
After our recent little "Friendly Takeover", proper table manners were used by all Forumites at each local establishment visited. A 'pusher' was discretely used by each person and not one raised eyebrow or fainting patron was seen anywhere. Can the NO's boast such proof?
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 04-06-05 AT 05:28PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Wait, I voted NO on using a pusher at a nice establishment a longgg time ago.
I've been away for a couple of days, but see that someone counted my yes vote. A final thought: if the dinner is an interview for prospective ee, why wouldn't the failure to cleanup the plate by using some method of 'finishing' the job, be indicative, on a sub conscious or deep seated psychological level of his 'inefficiency', lack of attention to detail, cost effectiveness, etc, etc. As emp/er I want the job done the most efficient way possible....preferably with the means at hand w/o further expense of resource and funds.I 'spose this proves once and for all I ain't no psycologist...etiquette indeed! There are powerful and important messages being sent here..and the yes voters are absolutely correct and you no voters are confusing form with substance.
........and if you really want the best candidate, choose the guy who suggests the plates be replaced with discardable, biodegradable paper, not plastic or foam. And it's also noteworthy to consider which direction and at what angle he/she has parked the auto in the parking lot, so as to indicate, perhaps, a diligent readiness to resume work promptly upon the completion of breaks and meals. But, do not confuse a zipper in the halfway down position as a signal of readiness or organizational skill.
Rather than this contest being concluded, what I really expect is that it's organizers will delay and recount and allow misplaced or absentee ballots and will be open to allowing the changing of votes or the challenge of chads. Meanwhile, I'm closing my eyes and imagining Sam motoring around with half a french fry between her fingers, moving it through catsup and sauce and lettuce scraps, humming those little dragline noises. x:-)
Don, thanks for supporting my position on sub conscious relay of significant information - and you have raised some very valid things which had not occurred to me (I admitted I was psychologically challenged). You open up my mind to a whole 'nother world of observations to be made, and interpretations to be addressed!
Comments
But seriously, crawfod, let's assume, as in the original post, YOU are the person in charge of the dinner engagement. Surely you would not base your dining etiquette on that of the person you had invited for a dinner interview. The question here is whether YOU think it appropriate to load your right hand fork with something like bread in your left hand. Remember now, white table cloth, coat and tie, socks, the whole bit.
Now you've added, "The question here is whether YOU think it appropriate to load your right hand fork with something like bread in your left hand. Remember now, white table cloth, coat and tie, socks, the whole bit." To your question, I would respond No, because you've established a sophisticated setting.
As to the original topic, an interview should focus on an exchange of information that, in my opinion, can best be served in a business setting, not at a meal hour. But after the formal job interview, if lunch or dinner fits in,
other than obviously unacceptable crude behavior from professionals, I can adjust. Again, the sophistication of the eatery plays a part.
I bet a dozen donuts he uses any instument within reach.
Oh, the vote....I believe it is perfectly permissable to use a piece of bread to assist a morsel of food onto your fork.
There are rules for everything from how to butter your bread or roll (tear a piece of bread, don't cut it - dab butter onto torn bits of bread as they are consumed, smearing is considered gauche)to how to signal waitstaff to clear your course by the manner in which you lay down your utensiles. (tines up vs. tines down and utensiles crossed over the plate)
When I'm out I can do it, but when I'm at home or my favorite riverside BBQ joint it's a whole other ballgame and all bets are off!
I would not personally push or pull my food onto my fork -- using other food or utensil -- in order to get to every last bite.
If someone with whom I am dining delicately used the bread or another utensil (knife, etc.) to gather every morsel of food onto the fork, they would not receive a demerit from me.
If someone with whom I am dining, causes food to run all over their plate or the table, they would receive one demerit.
If they used their hands to pick up the food (like corn), two demerits.
Using bread or anything else to sop the gravy - no need to talk further.
That's my vote.
BTW thanks Sam for the great scrabble word.
But you have to say 'yes' or 'no' to the bread and fork maneuver, otherwise Don will argue for your vote.
I can think of good reasons to vote no and good reasons to vote yes.
Here's another question. If I think it's o.k. to salt you food before eating it am I obligated to say yes to the bread and fork maneuver? All I really care about is the salt!
So many voters here are sitting on the fence and saying they do in some cases and wouldn't in others. The real question regarded a more-less formal, or at least stressful dinner with a client or potential employee and a boss or manager, not tailgaiting or eating Kentucky Fried chicken in the bottom of a 14 foot john boat with your hair in curlers. Get real people, it just ain't proper in that setting to be motoring around your plate with a hunk of bread pretending it's a front-end loader.
After tabulation and announcement of the results on this question (by the always trusted Sam), we'll move along to whether or not it's appropriate to leave the cash register with a toothpick in your mouth.
Zen, Parabeagle2, Don, Whirlwind, Safety, Crawfod,an Dasher - 7 NO's.
Smace, Shadowfax, HRinNH, National Guard, Sam, Whatever, and Rita - 7 YES's.
Tie-breaker anyone? Who's the forum moderator?
Guess which way he voted?
Gene
Post #83 to be exact.
Rather than this contest being concluded, what I really expect is that it's organizers will delay and recount and allow misplaced or absentee ballots and will be open to allowing the changing of votes or the challenge of chads. Meanwhile, I'm closing my eyes and imagining Sam motoring around with half a french fry between her fingers, moving it through catsup and sauce and lettuce scraps, humming those little dragline noises. x:-)
I think we should close the polls at noon. Going once, going twice, and . . . . .
The winner is?