Chauvenism and ...

Since Whatever tried to get a women's topic going and the men bombed it, I thought I might try again. But since the truth is that any topic, including chauvenism, affects us all, I am not sure that we can actually make one work.

So here goes: What work experiences have you had with chauvenism, or any other kind of unfair bias, that made your job more difficult? What did you do about it? Men, please feel free to join in and tell us when you had someone assume you were incompetent because of your sex (at work! at work!).

Comments

  • 29 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • Maybe the reason I'm in HR is because I can relate. I have been discriminated against both because of my sex and because of my race. So I have little tolerance for it. While in college, I had a part time job as a legal secretary and all the women legal secretaries assumed I was incompetent because I was a man (this was in the 70s when male secretaries were not common). Years later, when I was dating an Indian woman, she had to break up with me when her father in Calcutta found out I was white.
  • In my very first HR job in Benefits (my job was to manually calculate medical benefits on a 10 key adding maching, write them on a three part NCR paper, and process the check) I was the first male in a department of females. They made my life miserable to the point of changing some of my calculations to turn them into mistakes. I was glad to leave. I can't think of anything else until a month or so ago, when I applied for an interim HR manager job. I was called in a few days and was told that they wanted to hire someone "a little less senior". I had already decided that I didn't want the assignment.
  • They actually SAID that???
  • To Sonny - yes they did - exactly that.
  • Oh my goodness.............. A little less senior?

    Can you say.................. LAWSUIT!!!!
  • Ok, I'll make it 3 for 3 with the guys. Can't say I have experiences like the other 2 who posted, but for some reason I did get a little stupid when I moved into HR. After many years in manufacturing supervision, I had established my credibility and was considered knowledgeable with manufacturing processes and the technical parts of the job. Since HR is perceived somewhat as a "female" profession, I now have no technical credibility. Yesterday, we had a visit from our local congressman and it included a demonstration of the electronic voting machines that we build. I was part of the presentation and tour. I found out later there was a scramble to find someone who could operate the machine and could speak about it technically. Near panic as several people were on vacation. When I told them, after the fact, that I knew how to operate the machine and could tell about its features, I received the "deer in the headlights" look and a response that implied, "but you're just an HR person, how would you know that?" I managed that process for 4 years and have taken machines to job fairs to demonstrate them.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-31-03 AT 06:58AM (CST)[/font][p]My experience with chauvenism has been unique, I think. I have mostly worked for women my entire career. Only once for a male. I found that the women treated each other much differently than they treated me. They seemed always back stab each other. And my female bosses wouldn't yell at me but the other women in the department would get screamed at. I had one female boss tell me to wear my black pants to work because she liked the way my butt looked in them but that is an entirely different thread. I never quite understood why but I think it is a form of chauvenism.

    The one male boss that I had used to give all of the administrative tasks to my female counter part. I'm sure that was a form of chauvenism.
  • I translate everything for our non-English speaking Hispanic employees, and the South American and Mexican guys can really be sexist! Because I am a woman, my input is ignored or not taken seriously most of the time, and unless the employee needs a "favor" and is sucking up, any directive I issue or translate is disregarded until or unless a male delivers it. Frustrating! It used to bother me a lot, but now I issue a warning at management's direction, for example, and if the employee ignores me, I let him dig his own hole. They realize very quickly, and because I remind them, that they're in America now, and to be a success in this company, they have to show respect and courtesy to ALL coworkers and obey the rules.
  • When I went to work for a certain company in 94, there was a male department head, two other male HR Specialists and one female Specialist. The division VP was a female attorney (I did not say lady attorney). Gradually she got rid of the male department head and the other two male specialists and took the female specialist across town with her to finer, newer rented quarters, leaving me (Now HR Mgr) alone in the old HR section of the 2600 employee company, to do the mundane daily real HR work. Over time this tyrannical woman totally ignored all the REAL HR processes and the day to day HR and involved herself only in think-tank type stuff and anal processes that were meaningless to the bottom and never reached closure. Anyway, on one particular day, a meeting was had chaired by our outside female attorney who was dealing with some EEO issues for us. I was already in the room (the only one on time), when the group of women, which had now increased to five employees, approached the door to the room. The VP, unaware I was in the room, since she no longer even knew I existed, said, "OK ladies, it's just us girls, are we ready to meet?" A couple of them looked stunned when they saw me. A couple of them were real bull dykes and enjoyed it. I never was one to bite my tongue and said, "That sounded like a fairly sexist remark coming from a corporate HR Vice President". She turned red but her true colors still showed through. I eventually found other employment and 'Wilma Manhater' had gotten her wish of cleansing the department of all things penile. Now the company teeters on bankruptcy, the entire HR department is outsourced and the VP is up north somewhere working in the basement of a church headquarters. I think she's in charge of the committee overseeing who gets to plant trees on church rights of way and other important legal stuff.
  • So Don, why don't you tell how you really feel about this former HR VP? This time with a little more passion.
  • I was a returning college student receiving my degree in August 1993. My previous occupation was secretary/admin asst. It took almost a year to land a job and guess what - they hired me as the HR secretary at $7.92 an hour.

    Of course the good ending to the story is that I have now worked more than 9 years with the same company and am presently the employee relations manager. But the chauvinism against me NEVER being able to break out of my former occupation was incredible.
  • In a previous job I worked in an HR Department wth a bunch of very miserable women. We hired a lone male to work in the front of the department taking applications, general paperwork, etc. These females made this guy's life miserable - he could do nothing right. He finally gave up and quit after about 3 months and told me he couldn't stand working with this bunch of B_____!

    I also worked in a bank once where a group of tellers decided that the lone male in their department was gay and therefore he "must have aids" correct? They would do such things as spray the telephone with Lysol after he used it.
    He, too, stood it for about a couple of months until he hated to come to work. He told me why he was leaving and I went down to the teller department and told them how ignorant they were and that I was ashamed of them.

    I have found that generally women tend to be horrible to each other in the work place - nice to the face and backstabbing behind the scenes. Men can be chauvanistic, but I find this is changing a lot (maybe I am naive). I've never really had much of a problem relating to men - they usually say what they feel and then it's over whereas women tend to hold a grudge until the end of time.
  • >A couple of them looked stunned when they saw me. A couple of them
    >were real bull dykes and enjoyed it.

    Bull dykes?? What an interesting choice of terms in a thread about chauvinism.

  • When I was about to graduate with a BBA in Industrial Relations, a friend (male) who was also graduating with that degree decided to leave his present job in HR when he graduated. He had given his notice to take a new job. I called his former employer knowing they had an entry level opening. The HR guy I talked with (on the phone)said I would never be considered for the job because I didn't know anything about electrical stuff. There is no way for him to know if I did or not and my friend who left the job knew less than I did about it. Then some years later, I was employed with a large manufacturing company in HR. I had been there four years in corporate personnel and the local plant personnel manager's job came open. I was told that the President wasn't ready for a woman in that job. I am not kidding about that! They gave it to a guy that had been out of college a couple of months. He was referred to by the staff as "The Kid". We went into negotiations with one of the unions, The Kid made a fool of himself and I ran the backroom part of the negotiations, calculating hourly rates, insurance costs, etc. I ended up getting three raises that year (an admission that I was the capable one). When he got the job, it was very hard for me to face other employees who knew that I was the one who should have gotten the job. When I look back on it, I should have sued but I was trying to be a "team" player and not make waves. This type of thing would never happen to me today because I would never let someone get away with it but back then I was young and naive.
  • I got to put a 'deer in the headlights' look on a chauvenist once - that was fun. I was not very long out of college at the time. We had hired a new sales rep who was greatly experienced (wanted to work another 5 years until retirement). I happened to wander by the sales manager's office as he was meeting with this new employee and he waived me in to introduce me. I come in and extend my hand for the usual businesslike handshake and the new rep kisses my hand and says "My, my. Who might this little lady be?" I was HR savvy enough to NOT say the first thing that came to my mind, I just raised one eyebrow and fixed him with a stare briefly. The sales manager turned beet red and told him my name and added 'she's one of the owners of the company'. Deer in headlights time! I then smiled as sweetly as I could and asked "What was your name again?"

    Turns out he was an irritating, timewasting windbag who thought that sort of 'charm' closed sales. He underperformed his way off our payroll rather efficiently and I was always grateful that because of that incident he never came windbagging at me!
  • One of my earliest jobs (17 yrs. old) was as a hostess in a restaurant. I ordered my high school class ring and was making payments. I asked the owner of the restaurant if I could get a few more hours in order to pay the ring off. He suggested that if I agreed to work some catered banquets away from the restaurant, I wouldn't need to work more hours, but a few "favors" might be required. I said, no thank you and never mentioned this to anyone. Interestingly, when I tried to make another payment for my ring, I was told the account had been paid in full. Needless to say, I never returned to work for the lech. And I had to lie to my father about why I quit my job. If I had told him the truth, I would have been visiting Dad in jail.

    Not related to employment chauvenism, but, when I was first married (almost 30 years ago) we applied for a home loan. I was told they wouldn't consider any of my earnings because I was female. Less than a year later, they would consider only half of my earnings. We qualified, got the loan and -surprise- we're still in the same PAID FOR home.

    When interviewed for my first "adult" job in 1974, I had just been married a couple of weeks. They were very concerned about when I thought we would begin to have children. They would be surprised to find out it took nearly ten years. Too bad - they missed out on a great employee.

    At my current employer, I discovered I was pregnant some 20 yrs. ago. I had just transferred to the position of Sales Secretary. The female Director of Sales found out I was pregnant and asked me to step back to my previous position, secretary in a another department. I did so without a whimper, but was insulted and peaved. She lasted a few months. I will celebrate (?) my 24 year employment anniversary next Wednesday. Wonder where she is now?

    Just for a chuckle. Today at lunch, I was eating with our Comptroller. All of the (very large and noisy) Housekeeping Department had eaten earlier and gone. The Maintenance crew had eaten and gone. One lone Housekeeper was eating by herself. A very mild-mannered, quiet Maintenance man returned to clear his dishes and asked, matter of factly to the Housekeeper, "why hadn't she eaten with the rest of the horde?" I didn't hear the "d", I heard an "s". Someone performed the Heimlech manuever on me and I double checked with the Housekeeper to ascertain her reaction. The person I was eating with reacted to what must have been my mouth dropping on the table and I explained what I thought I heard. Thank goodness I was wrong. I couldn't imagine him saying that or the other two women not reacting.

  • My biggest issue that I will NEVER forget was a problem between a female department manager and her male employee. She talked with our Exec. VP (male) about helping to resolve the problem. When he called the employee in to talk with him, our Exec. VP told the employee not to pay attention that it was probably "just that time of the month"! She was not present during the meeting; I'm the one that overheard the conversation. I do believe this one takes the cake! Anyone else??
  • Just last month I accompanied our safety director to a job site to check on our crew and talk with the foreman. Ray went up a high ladder into a ceiling to survey the work, and I remained below holding our notebooks and looking over other rooms at the site. This jerk comes up to me and asks if I was the contractor's "safety girl". Safety girl?! Sounds like a lame super hero! I wasn't sure if he was anyone important so I was careful to respond calmly, but I had the overwhelming urge to slug him! Construction is still male-dominated and it is a pretty sexist culture, but that kind of behavior is unprofessional and very revealing. If I come up with a good outfit I'll post it here with the shot of me in the HR shirt. Maybe I'll put a big S on the shirt and HR on the cape and spin around as the situation demands!
  • These are all very interesting stories and I give a lot of credit to those of you who have had to put up with ignorant bosses, interviewers, and employees! I

    It's amazing to me how women used to be (and still are in some cases) treated in the workplace! Thanks for sharing, I now have a better appreciation for my boss and the people I work with .
  • I worked in an office setting as a newlywed and we were looking for a better apartment. One of the managers in the office (not my boss) mentioned that he was looking for tenants for the upstairs apartment of his home. We paid a month's down payment, he cleared out some old furniture, we gave notice at our old apartment and my husband and I were ready to move in within the next week.

    The manager worked nearby my cubicle, and stopped a little too frequently and I was starting to get uncomfortable. He asked me if I liked to lay out in the sun. He said he would be more than happy, anytime, to come outside to the backyard and help apply sunscreen. He asked if my husband was in sports and would be gone often.

    I quickly found another apartment and had to tell my husband only that I didn't want to move there afterall. (My husband would be in jail if he knew the situation.) The people at work heard about me "changing my mind" and thought it was pretty low because this manager had cleared out some old furniture, etc so he could help us out. My family thought I was nuts for demanding, on short notice, that we change our mind. I wish I would have had more guts to push the issue back then rather than pretend that it never happened.
  • These stories are unreal. Many, Many years ago - I use to get annoyed when someone would say "Thanks Dear" - my typicaly respone was "Your Welcome Antelope" - that prevented most from calling me dear. The older I get the more Dear doesn't bother me. (Well depends on who says it). I to will be more thankful for the people I work for and with.
  • There you go April Showers, concluding that only women are mistreated in the workplace. That fits in with this thread nicely. Are you overlooking the male comments about the same and worse treatment?
  • Speaking of men being treated poorly, I am still trying to get over gillian being told he was too senior for a job. . . good grief, in this day and age.
  • no, I can just relate better to the women's stories x0:) for obvious reasons! The men's stories are just as interesting...
    as I think you said once... "don't get your pants in a bunch"!!!!
    x}>
  • My husband actually interviewed for a job last week, and the management recruiter couldn't send him on to the employer for a second interview because the employer wanted someone "more junior" - it still happens!

    When I worked at corporate HR for a baking company about 10 years ago, I was conducting "Workers' Comp 101" session for all of our plant management groups. At the time, I reported to the Chief Financial Officer (the guy I've mentioned before who told his female staff accountant that if she planned to have a baby that year, he wouldn't be giving her a raise). He never came to one of my presentations, but he scoffed at my ability to do them. He told me that all I was was an attractive young lady in a miniskirt, trying to get a message across to a bunch of old bread men. He further explained, "You'd never see a pretty girl standing in a commercial for a Ford F-100 pounding on the hood saying, 'Buy this truck' - no one would pay any attention - unless, or course, she was wearing a bikini. That type of message needs to be delivered by a real man in a flannel shirt and cowboy hat to be believable."

    On my current job, I replaced a male predecessor who lasted only six months. Going through some files shortly after I started, I came across the interview notes from when he was hired. The initial screening was done by an elderly female recruiter, and the next interview was done by the middle-aged female division HR person. Her notes included the following: "Where are all the female candidates? This job is going to require lots of reporting and correspondence - a female will be much more satisfied with a desk-type job than a man will." Anyway, the male that they hired at that time was totally ineffective - he spent all of his time sitting at his desk, thinking lofty thoughts, and avoiding getting involved with employees. They fired him, and hired me - I spend as little time at my desk as necessary, and management and the employees are thrilled to have a hands-on HR manager. BTW, the division HR manager will be assuming the VP position when the current male VP retires in January - hope she doesn't give much direction to the less experienced HR people in the plants!
  • >These stories are unreal. Many, Many years ago - I use to get annoyed
    >when someone would say "Thanks Dear" - my typicaly respone was "Your
    >Welcome Antelope" - that prevented most from calling me dear. The
    >older I get the more Dear doesn't bother me. (Well depends on who says
    >it). I to will be more thankful for the people I work for and with.


    In the "South", it used to be "sweetheart", "sugah" and "honey" that women were called. I haven't noticed this as much lately.

    I remember one of my first jobs was working downtown at a law office and I would take the mail to the corner mailbox several times a day. I remember an elderly gentleman that I would encounter from time to time toddling down the street with his cane and taking his mail to the same mailbox. I often asked him if I could take the mail for him and he would always tip his hat and say "thank you dear". I always thought he was kinda sweet, but maybe he was really a lech that just enjoyed looking at my teenaged legs in a mini-skirt.


  • Just remembered; when I was going through 7 interviews for this job about 5 months ago, a senior VP from Corporate flew in to interview me. He was looking over my resume and application and made a remark like this, "Hmmm. Let's see, you're probably about the age that would have placed you in the group eligible for callup during Vietnam....Were you by chance in the military then?" I wasn't offended (didn't get my pants in a wad)since I think he and I are the same age.

    Gillian: At least the guy didn't say, "We're looking for someone not quite so senior with perhaps a non-Brittish accent". Then he would have REALLY fired you up! x:-)

    Sonny: What would you say if the young interviewer told you he was "Looking for a gal with a few less miles on her; someone who has been around the coffe pot and can order pizza too"? Never mind. Never mind. I know.
  • You are right Don, we don't want to go there. .
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