Vacation used for FMLA?

Caroliso · May 2006

I'm interested in what/if people allow for paid time off coverage during FMLA leave.

What we'd like to do is say sick and personal time off fine, vacation time per supervisor discretion. The alternative is to say no on vacation no matter what, which will go over here like a lead balloon.

The reason we want to say supervisor discretion is because supervisors with problem employees feel hamstrung if there is no incentive for an employee to be super vigilant about how they schedule those unpredictable appointments, time off, related to the approved FML. The incentive being present if they aren't permitted to apply vacation time to the hours off.

FunHRBanker · May 2006

Check your state laws. We allow people to use any kind of time they want, and may force them to use vacation or personal time (1) after the first 6 weeks after the birth or placement of a child, or (2)after the first 2 weeks of of FMLA leave for the employee's or family member's serious injury or illness. To my knowledge, we have never forced use of time as many employees end up subsituting leave because they cannot afford to go unpaid for an extended period of time.

Hope this helps!

sonny · May 2006

We require the use of sick and when that is gone vacation. Leaving it to the supervisor's discretion makes me a bit nervous.

NaeNae55 · May 2006

It seems like not forcing the use of vacation may result in the employee being gone more. For example: supervisor says employee may not use vacation time and employee uses entire 12 weeks of fmla from June through August (using sick leave first and then LWOP). Employee had vacation planned in September and requested it off way back in March. What will you do now? If you say no, you've been gone too much then you are retaliating for fmla leave. If you let them go then the employee is gone 14 weeks and you and employee's fellow employees have to try to cover for all. Not good for morale either.

I prefer forcing employee to use all available time. Then they can't come back only to leave on vacation. In fact, they have to come to work every day until they build some time back up. I just think it works better.

Nae

Dutch2 · May 2006

We have the same philosophy as NaeNae55. They are going to use the vacation sometime during the year and if you allow them to carry it that is just that much more time off during the year.

Caroliso · May 2006

I understand your reasoning. I think my supervisor would not deny the vacation that was pre-approved, as that's what she requires (advance notice). And I certainly wouldn't let her if I was in on the discussioon, for the very reason you indicated.
So, this is what it comes down to -- allowing use of vacation to cover FML to the supervisor's discretion? This is what we do for other absences, and I'm trying to see if this is any different. EE is entitled to the unpaid leave, but not entitled to it being paid. In other instances, when an EE calls in or needs time off, it gets charged to sick or personal if available (and if appropriate reason), but vacation only upon approval of supervisor.

Irie · May 2006

Our president said that employees can use vacation time for FMLA if they want but they do not have to. His reasoning is that if they use all PTO for an illness they won't have any time left for vacation after they get better. I informed him this isn't a good practice as this allows people to miss even more work. He didn't seem to care so we let employees use whatever they want for FMLA.

However, any absences that are not FMLA must be PTO before time off without pay.

mbeam · May 2006

Years ago, we changed our policy and combined vacation and sick into one big bank of PTO.

Having been on the other side of it when we had separate banks, would say I highly recommend it. We employ adults why not treat them like the adults they are? Granted a few may abuse it but the majority who are good team members don't abuse it and are more appreciative of this tracking method.

At a previous employer when I was not in the HR field, I remember feeling "ripped off" because I rarely used my sick bank and they didn't allow us to carry time over or get paid on it. Somehow this didn't seem fair.

System · May 2006

I'm with you. We've had PTO for a long time, and it sure makes a lot of things simpler. My main gripe is that some people won't stay home when they're sick because it reduces their "vacation time."

James Sokolowski
HRhero.com

Caroliso · May 2006

I agree with you both. I wish I could convince our people of the wisdom of this, although I must confess I've just floated some balloons, not launched a full fledged campaign. The biggest objection is that the result would be less than the sum of its parts (fewer total days) and they think people would go ballistic.
One of these days, perhaps.

WO · May 2006

We require that all eligible sick and vacation leave be exhausted concurrently with FMLA. I highly recommend that within your FMLA policy. I constantly have employees wanting to use FMLA only so as to save weeks of vacation later or the reverse wanting to use only their sick leave for the occurrence and save FMLA to stack on top of the absence later. We do allow them to save 24 hrs days of vacation for later use.

We also implement FMLA when an eligible event occurs.

Also I have floated the PTO balloon a few times recently. Some went ballistic and they were louder than those who were considering it. I lived to float it another day, soon.

Caroliso · May 2006

I keep coming back to the issue of allowing use of vacation time for FMLA. Some of my supervisors would rather have more time taken, but in a planful way that requires approval and permits denial if the timing is bad (vacation). The alternative for them is worse; paid FMLA (through vacation funding) that is already by its nature somewhat unpredictable and difficult to "plan" around. Their fear is that with the paid time off, any incentive to plan absences (arrranging doctor's appointments together, on a day that's already been requested as the day off, or working with a doctor to find an appointment time that isn't so soon and gives the supervisor some notice) is out the window.

lukkieseven · May 2006

We have been trying to move from Vacation & Sick to PTO but we have too many different classes of employees and it would not work. However, we require that Vacation and Sick be used for FMLA. However, we allow them to keep 40 hours of vacation in their "bank" so that when they come back from FMLA, there is something there for them. They cannot do that with their sick leave. But you could also allow them to keep a few hours of sick in their "bank" for when they return. It works for us. No complaints.

atrimble · May 2006

We require use of all accrued leaves during FMLA (concurrent) before moving an employee into an unpaid leave status. Because pre-tax insurance premiums come out of the employee's paycheck, this ensures that employees are paying their portion of the premium for as long as possible. We do have a 3rd party-administered short term disability policy for those employees who do not have an adequate amount of paid time off accrued, but the employee then ends up paying their portion of the insurance premiums via personal check - after taxes, and out of a check that is 60% of their pre-disability income. We've got enough employees living check to check that one missed pay period may cost them their housing, so we require them to get paid if they've got the time on the books.

Vacation used for FMLA?

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