Prenatal visits

rad · May 2004

Would prenatal visits for a regular pregnancy be covered by intermittent FMLA?

deniseE · May 2004

I would think so since the condition is likely to last more than 3 days and does require being seen by a doctor. Ideally, the appointments would be scheduled to have the least impact on your workday as possible...but I know that is not always feasible.

CCH1400 · May 2004

I tend to disagree. Unless she has complications which would cause her to be hospitalized just the fact that she is pregnant does not mean FMLA kicks in. The hospitalization would cause her to be disabled and the delivery would cause her to be disabled but not the pregnancy itself.

I'm fairly new to HR and FMLA and please correct me if I am wrong.

deniseE · May 2004

I think the standard is any on-going condition that requires the care of a doctor.

Actually, beginning FMLA now shortens the available time she'd have off for delivery...is this why you're looking to cover this under FMLA?

If you had another ee with say, back trouble...that required on-going medical appointments would you be interested in FMLA?

rad · May 2004

Well, thats my thought - start FMLA now rather than later. But I can't find a definite answer. Yes, if it were treatment for an injury it would be covered but since a pregnancy isn't something that one "recovers" from I wasn't sure if its the same thing.

MSwanson · May 2004

In Regulation 825.112 it states that an employee can take off for prenatal care.

(c) Circumstances may require that FMLA leave begin before the
actual date of birth of a child. An expectant mother may take FMLA leave
pursuant to paragraph (a)(4) of this section before the birth of the
child for prenatal care or if her condition makes her unable to work.

It also states it in 825.114 that any period of incapacity due to pregnancy, or for prenatal care.

I also thought I read somewhere in the regs that they also could take off for morning sickness but I am not sure which reg that was in.

MSwanson · May 2004

All I needed to do was flip the page and here it is about morning sickness. 825.114

(e) Absences attributable to incapacity under paragraphs (a)(2) (ii)
or (iii) qualify for FMLA leave even though the employee or the
immediate family member does not receive treatment from a health care
provider during the absence, and even if the absence does not last more
than three days. For example, an employee with asthma may be unable to
report for work due to the onset of an asthma attack or because the
employee's health care provider has advised the employee to stay home
when the pollen count exceeds a certain level. An employee who is
pregnant may be unable to report to work because of severe morning
sickness.

deniseE · May 2004

But pregnancy (or the result thereof-Birth) is something that requires recovery and it is an on-going condition.

As much as we want to try to pretend that NOTHING is happening between the time the little plus sign appears and the delivery...it's just not reality. It's sometimes difficult for the ee and difficult for the employer...and you really have to make an effort to see this as a temporary disability rather than a pregnancy in order to abide by all the laws and regulations.

Don D · May 2004

It's always been my experience that the employer places the pregnant employee on FMLA as soon as the first absence occurs that is related to the pregnancy. In fact, the Departments I've managed always get the employee to go ahead and get the paperwork moving in anticipation of upcoming absences. There is really no reason not to and it is in the employer's interest as well as providing a degree of protection to the employee, which, afterall, is all FMLA is intended to do.

(BTW, "IT" all began sometime prior to the appearance of the little plus sign. x:-) )

rad · May 2004

I agree and I see no reason to not approve FMLA for the visits but I'm getting some push back.

deniseE · May 2004

Does your company offer PTO?? If so, eventhough she may not be using FMLA she's still able to make her appts, right? It's actually to her benefit to not start FMLA now.

Typically, prenatal visits are once a month, until about the last 6-8 weeks when the dr. wants to see you bi-weekly, then weekly until delivery. I'm having a hard time understanding how one dr. apt. a month is causing such an issue. Unless this is a high risk pregnancy, which is another issue altogether.

MSwanson · May 2004

We normally have the employee start FMLA at the beginning of their pregnancy. A lot of employees will make their doctor appointments either first thing in the morning, during their lunch time or at the end of the day. So they are not using FMLA time for doctor's appointments unless they take off the whole day. I see it used more for morning sickness, headaches, back pains, basically anything related to pregnancy.

We have a new attendance policy that if you have 5% of unexcused absences you will be counseled. So it is in the employees best interest to apply for FMLA. Even though they are pregnant if they call in sick it will still get counted against them unless it is a scheduled appointment or day off or they are on FMLA. I do have a few employees who will agree with me about filling it out during their pregnancy because they want to "save" the 12 weeks. FMLA is not something that is saved. The same employees that want to save it are also the first employees to complain when they are counseled for calling in.

Don D · May 2004

Don't forget that you can (should) count these peripheral incidents as intermittent FMLA. The employee will likely milk the company for the entire 12 weeks. Therefore, I feel it is encumbent on the HR Department to make sure each hour of that 12 weeks is tracked. They do not have to 'go along' with the idea. FMLA is a government entitlement and the only thing we can do is administer it fairly and track hours. But we can sure as shootin' make sure they do not go over the 12 weeks by even one hour.

karene · May 2004

Don D-I'm appalled at your attitude about FMLA and employees' milking it for every hour they're entitled to. Since most FMLA leaves are unpaid, it would seem as though many employees wouldn't be able to afford to take the full 12 weeks without actually needing them. I believe we are about the only industrialized nation that does not pay for leaves for childbirth/bonding for the mother, let alone for the father. My organization pays for 12 weeks of FMLA leave and we do not have employees who abuse it.

rad · May 2004

Sorry if I've presented it as a major issue, it isn't. I'm looking for clarification because there is a difference in interpretation by me and her supervisor.

Don D · May 2004

RAD: Does that mean you're getting resistance? From whom? If it's the employee, they have no say-so in the matter.

rad · May 2004

No, not the employee. She's been using her personal time for appts when she was not able to get them after work. Another employee told her she should have them FMLA approved. I agreed, her supervisor did not, so I'm just looking for some clarification.

Don D · May 2004

Different culture. A supervisor in my experience has absolutely no input regarding FMLA. The FML Act, like most involving complex labor law, is not the purvue of a supervisor.

deniseE · May 2004

shouldn't approval/denial of FMLA go through HR...most specifically the person in charge of medical documentation?

Do the supervisors have access to ee's medical files?? If so, you have a larger problem than this FMLA question.

rad · May 2004

Well, you see, we have a department that reviews and either approves or denies FMLA. They are contracted workers and from my own experience, it is a headache. So no, its not up to HR per se. Nor is it up to the supervisor but I'm in a culture where FMLA is seen as the big bad enemy, so many people are reluctant to put in the paperwork and use their personal time when they are sick (we pay for sickness and FMLA absences so using personal time does not count as an absence). She has come to me for guidance after having spoken to her supervisor who gave her a resounding "NO, it won't be approved" I disagree but, as you can see, I wasn't really sure about appointments although I know after the birth she's covered.

To answer your second question, supervisors do not have access to medical files but he knows she is pregnant, its pretty obvious.

Don D · May 2004

I'm aghast! You contract out the decision as to whether or not FMLA is approved? I will do it for half their charge and twice as fast. If interested, I will send my bid to the company.

psrcello · May 2004

The regs are real clear on this - definition of "serious health condition" includes:

"Any period of incapacity due to preganacy, or for prenatal care."

rad · May 2004

Thank you. I told her to go ahead with it and she sent in the paperwork.

Prenatal visits

Comments