waiver for non-company sponsored activity

Paul in Cannon Beach · September 2006

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-11-06 AT 10:46AM (CST)[/font][br][br]The nature of our business creates a very close knit group of employees. They often organize activities and get-togethers. That is a wonderful thing but there are times when I would like to clearly spell out that an event is not sponsored or endorsed by our organization.

Example, a white water rafting trip is scheduled soon and its being organized by employees.

Does anyone have a form that would essentially serve as a waiver stating that this activity is understood to not be endorsed, sponsored, or connected to our organization?

If you don't mind e-mailing me a copy to [email]paulknoch@cbcc.net[/email] that would be great.

Thanks!

ray a · September 2006

OK, a group of your employees go on a white water rafting trip and someone is seriously injured. Though the activity was not endorsed by management, it was organized on your premises by your employees during their normal working hours and you allowed them to do it. Would a jury let you off the hook just because of a simple piece of paper or would they say your tacit approval carries more weight than the waiver therefore you are liable? Besides, you have stated a close knit group of ee's is natural to your business and maybe even proven essential.

Paul in Cannon Beach · September 2006

So if a couple of your employees said "Hey, let's go bungee jumping next saturday and invite those guys from shipping to come too", you are saying that your organization would be liable for an injury when one of the bungee cords snaps?

I dont see how our organization is liable for the private, free-time activities of our employees regardless of whether they hatched the idea on company property during business hours.

How many times in a given week do co-workers say "Hey lets go grab a beer after work tonight!" Is the organization liable if they get drunk and cause an accident?

Besides, can I PROHIBIT the employees from going rafting together on their free time?

I hope you aren't on the jury, Ray.

SMace · September 2006

I don't see a need for a waiver. How will you know who is going? Will you send out an email that says anyone participating in this non-company sponsored acitivity must report to my office to sign a waiver? Doesn't make sense to me. If you aren't sponsoring it, your not sponsoring it.

If your supervisors are involved with the planning, I would start by having a convo with them.

ray a · September 2006

I guess I equate it with the ADA, you consider someone to have a disability even if they don't, you just put yourself into a position of being required to give them protection under the ADA. It's a perception thing. A bunch of guys decide to be involved in an activity that could be dangerous and because they all happen to work together you decide to make them sign a waiver. That waiver could be perceived as making the activity recognized by the company and if something did go wrong, you could be accused of tacit approval because you did nothing to stop the activity. I may be grasping at straws, but there have been strange court decisions in the past.

System · September 2006

I wouldn't require a waiver. Employees associate off hours all the time and you can't go around policing which activities the companiy deems risky or if they have potential liability. I think that starts to appear to be unncecessary medling in private lives and gross waste of time. I truly beleive there is not a court, judge or jury (other than in California) that would equate an injury sustanied in white water rafting to a legitimate workers comp claim. Not only is the activitiy comletely voluntary, it is not financially supported by the company, or part of their job. The normal standard for comp liability, as you already know, if "arising out of and in the course of emplpoyment" Rafting doesn't even come close to that, especially in light of the complete absence of company involvement in the trip.

Paul in Cannon Beach · September 2006

My concern is twofold:

1. The trip is being organized by a supervisor.

2. This supervisor led a rafting trip that WAS an official organizational activity in June.

I want to make sure everyone was clear that this trip is a voluntary activity during employee's free time that is not sponsored or endorsed by the organization.

Am I worrying too much? Too little? Totally screwed?

ray a · September 2006

Paul, you're confirming what I'm saying. It will be perceived as a company function, not unlike a Christmas Party or picnic. Parties and picnics are voluntary, but have there not been judgments made against employers when things got out of hand at them? In your case, you said in your initial your employees tend to be a tight knit group and since the supervisor has done this officially in the past, it could be construed as a team building event. I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but not sure if your waiver means anything.

davids · September 2006

While I don't think you are totally screwed, I think employees (or their attorney) could make your life difficult. My suggestion is to counsel the supervisor that he/she needs to make it clear that the trip is not a company event and that he/she should not be soliciting/registering employees during work time. I would also send an email/letter/post flyers/etc. to employees clarifying that it is not a company sponsored or endorsed event. I think that is about all you can do.

BettyBoop FL · September 2006

Paul,
Why not send a general email or do a posting that everyone can see, clearly stating that this is not a company sponsored or endorsed event. That it has been privately planned and totally voluntary.

SMace · September 2006

A posting or email's not gonna do jack squat if you do not have a convo with the supervisor. As long as he/she is on board you shouldn't have a problem and don't need any paper.

All the sup. has to do is tell the "group" before they go that the co.'s not sponsoring it and if they don't want to go they don't have to.

One reason everyone hates HR is because HR likes to make things unecessarily complicated.

Paul in Cannon Beach · September 2006

I think your answer is overly simplistic. That is another reason people hate HR.

We tend to react with simple answers that do not adequately reflect the actual complexity of the real life employment situations.

I have had the conversation with the supervisor. My concern is clarifying with the employees that are going rafting that this trip is not a company activity. Thus, the question about a waiver.

I may be over-reacting but when it comes to protecting your organization from unnecessary liability, I think its better to be on the safe side.

SMace · September 2006

>I think your answer is overly simplistic.

My answer is too simple? LOL. Please explain how it needs to be more complicated?

>
>I have had the conversation with the supervisor.
> My concern is clarifying with the employees
>that are going rafting that this trip is not a
>company activity. Thus, the question about a
>waiver.

That is the sups. job, not yours.

Paul in Cannon Beach · September 2006

"A posting or email's not gonna do jack squat if you do not have a convo with the supervisor. As long as he/she is on board you shouldn't have a problem and don't need any paper."

Then why do we document conversations, incidents, agreements, discipline, etc?

Because in real life, the unexpected happens and you don't want to be in a position where you have to rely on a "he said, she said" conversation. If its important, put it in writing.

SMace · September 2006

OK let's suppose it goes to court. If he talks to everyone you are going to have several witnesses recall the conversation. That's not he said/she said and that's better than documentation.

lnelson · September 2006

The organizers need to inform all involved that the company is in no way connected to this event.

I do not believe a waiver is necessary in this case. As you stated they have organized other events. I would make certain they do not organize non-company events during company time.

Paul in Cannon Beach · September 2006

The general consensus seems to be that a waiver is either unnecessary or meaningless. So, I wont proceed.

I have instructed the supervisor that they need to clearly communicate that the raft trip is not sponsored by the company.

She was considering requesting a company van for taking the rafters and I have nixed that.

Its the downside to having an otherwise wonderful supervisor who once worked for a company that led "extreme" expeditions.

mwild31 · September 2006

Hi Paul

I'm happy to hear that you're going with the majority - I would not require/request a waiver. As long as you have told the supervisor that this is not a company sponsored activity and have asked the supervisor to communicate the same the the people attending - you should be fine. I agree with your decision not to let the group use company property for this event either. If a group of employees want to get together & go have a beer or raft down a river or go dancing after work, they can & the company is fortunate to have people that enjoy working with each other so much that they don't mind spending their "private" time with each other.

Lisa In Iowa · September 2006

Paul, you may also want to remind your supervisor that although this is not a company sposored event that supervisors are held to a higher standard. Anytime a supervisor is out with direct reports, they have to remember that they are wearing their supervisory/company hat. For example, this supervisor couldn't say inappropriate things, or act inappropriately on the trip, and then say it is okay because it was not a company sponsored event. I'm not saying that a supervisor can't socialize with staff, but they have to remember it is a fine line. I'd also remind the supervisor that coordinating such functions can cause issues. Although the trip is completely voluntary, if the supervisor begins to treat those that attend differently than those that didn't go, it can create issues back in the workplace. In the future, it may make sense for a non-supervisor to plan such outings. That all being said, it sounds like you probably won't have any issues because you said it was a wonderful supervisor, but you may just want to remind her of her role.

Paul in Cannon Beach · September 2006

Good point. Fortunately I trust this person 100 percent. She has been totally receptive to my concerns.

The flipside to all this discussion is that these activities can help build a fun, positive community in the workplace and I don't want to discourage that.

I think I am going to plan a "fire walk" for our management team next month.

waiver for non-company sponsored activity

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