Can I terminate?

nohr4u1yr · December 2004

Merry Christmas!!!

I was just imformed by one of my manager's that an employee has been calling in everyday since last Monday. (I know...it's so nice to hear about this now) Anyways, here are her excuses...

Last week...

Mon-Wed - 1st child sick
Thurs & Fri - 2nd child sick

This week...

Mon- she's sick
Tues & Wed - can't find a babysitter

The message she left today at 7:45am (she always calls 15 min before her shift starts) states that she probably won't be in tomorrow since she can't find a sitter.

My question is...can I terminate her?

Thank you!!!

Shelley

ritaanz · December 2004

I know you are going to wrinkle your nose when you read my reply. What does your attendance policy say? Does she have any previous attendance issues? If not, the clock started ticking last Monday.

nohr4u1yr · December 2004

It states anyone that misses 5 days consecutively must provide documentation regarding why they were out. Based on her reasons how can she provide documentation. She has called in each day, she does not have any PTO left, she did have previous attendance issues which I just found out about. And not brought to my attention so she was not written up. I personally think she is out of town and is milking the system.

Am I able to say that if she does not report to work tomorrow she will be terminated?

Judith · December 2004

She can provide documentation via fax. How have you handled situations previously with other employees? Does the manager not see an issue with this? I would try to get some consistency in your company with reporting to HR -- if you can't then you run a risk every time you try to enforce something. Why did the manager now inform you of the problem?

nohr4u1yr · December 2004

I have a training class set for next week with the managers and one of the topics is on when to notify HR. This is the first time I have had this type of situation so I don't have anything to fall back on.

I'm sure she can "fax" something but her excuse today is that she doesn't have a babysitter so her writing that and faxing it over doesn't prove anything.

Based on the number of days she has been out (almost 2 weeks) no pto - am I able to term? Or can a state you must report to work tomorrow or you will be terminated.

marc · December 2004

We would probably not terminate her in our shop. With respect to attendance issues, if it is not a job abandonment situation, we go the full progressive discipline route before terminating. We will not pull that final trigger until the EE has received the full set of warnings, from verbal all the way through a final notice indicating the next occurrence will be a termination.

I don't always like that route and all our policies say we can jump to termination at any time if the situation warrants it.

In your case, I might jump to the final warning, but not all the way to termination - that's the way our Exec Dir requires the policies to be administered.

HRinFL · December 2004

I agree with Marc, I would not terminate, but would review her file and try to determine the appropriate level of discipline for her. The biggest concern is comparables - if this manager has not reported her attendance issues to you prior to the ee's perfromance esculating to this level, what other adverse comparables are out there. I would imagine this manager has not been very consistent with applying the policy as it is intended, creating a weakness for you if you take the termination route. I know you have a training session scheduled, but I would consider talking to the manager prior to the meeting and explaining that policies need to be consistently applied and enforced. Not doing so creates liability and hinders you from taking appropriate action. As a manager s/he needs to be mindful of the implications that actions/inactions have on the operation. We have counseled managers in the past for not properly administering policies in situations like this. Don't you wish managers would take the same amount of time with HR issues as they do with P & L reports, labor reports, etc.?!

Don D · December 2004

nohr4u1yr, FL: You have asked four times 'Can I term?' The answer is yes, you can. Regardless of the fact that she is out because her kids are out of school for 'Holiday' break, your trials and tribulations will come in the UI arena and possibly with EEOC, if she can assert and you cannot refute that you have been inconsistent and arbitrary in your application of attendance policy and subsequent termination. Otherwise, you'll skate. x:-)

nohr4u1yr · December 2004

Don,

When her manager spoke to her Wednesday stating that we needed her to come in Thursday she said she would. Thursday morning we got a call from her that she had to take her son to the doctor for a physical. (hmmm....wouldn't she have known that wednesday?) So, we told her to bring in a doctor's note today regarding Thursday. She called today and said she won't be coming back. She did come in this afternoon to pick up her personal belongings and dropped off her ID badge.

Thank you for all your help!

Shelley

pork1 · December 2004

So now you can terminate as a "voluntary quit".

More importantly, I would seriously look at my company policy for termination and progressive discipline and train, accordingly. It is evident to me that HR is positioned as the time card and attendance policeman, Is that where you want to be? If so have at it, if not then you best get the managers to understand their role and how you play as the counsulting individual for how the "chain of command's" or "chain of authority's" management of people is played.

Glad, you got a straight answer from an apparant otherwise good employee that everyone loved and went the extra mile to keep her happy and abusing the system!

PORK

nohr4u1yr · December 2004

Pork,

No, I do not want to be the attendance police... These managers need to take responsibility for their teams and not be afraid to say no. One good thing is that they are all receptive to training - I have asked for their option on what roadblocks/frustrations/concerns they have and I am working that into my training.

Thank you! I hope you have a great day!

Shelley

Can I terminate?

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