Firing scenario - what to say

Tammy Binford · October 2004

Hello Forumites,

I'm working on a piece about what to say when firing a potentially violent employee, and I'd like some suggestions from you, the HR pros. Maybe you've been in that situation and carefully considered what words to use -- and not use. I'd appreciate it if you could pass along your wisdom. I'm hoping to provide "scripts" for termination meetings.

If you have ideas to share, feel free to respond to this post or e-mail me directly. I will need your name and company name if we use your information.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Tammy Binford
Editor, M. Lee Smith Publishers
[email]tbinford@mleesmith.com[/email]

ritaanz · October 2004

I had to terminate an employee for poor attendance and work performance. In the last month or so of his employment, he kept referring to himself as Mr.Gun. He would leave notes on co-workers desks "reminding" them of his prized possession, the gun. While sitting at his desk, he would talk to himself about how good it felt to pull the trigger. His co-workers were afraid of him.

The last time I counseled him about his attendance, I told him one more absence would result in termination. The following week his was out again.

I decided to make the termination discussion as if it were good news. I told him that his wish was granted and his last day with us was today. I informed him that he would be eligible to collect unemployment for 26 weeks. I also advised him that he could relocate to another state and his unemployment checks would follow him. He left smiling. I still wonder if that wasn't his primary objective.

POPEYE · October 2004

Ritaanz - What are you going to do if he is denied his unemployment? We convert some kevlar that is used in bulletproof vests so if you feel that you need some.....

ritaanz · October 2004

Hey Pops, I made sure he got his unemployment. Ya know whada mean?

HRanna · October 2004

We all know when terminating, the best thing to do is to keep it short and sweet -- get to the point, do not allow the employee to debate the decision, communicate pertinent information and get them out.

However, I have definitely learned in this job that ignoring a problem never, ever, ever makes it better. In a case where the potential for retalitory violence seems high, I would directly (but not aggressively) confront the employee.

"You have said things that cause us to believe that you would retaliate for this decision. Is there anything we should know about? Do you understand that just the threat or violence is a criminal act and can be prosecuted? Tell us honestly, do you feel you need someone to talk to (a counselor, pastor, etc.) who could help you through any negative feelings you have right now? Is there any way we can help you with that decision?"

By bringing it out in the open, I feel you give someone the opportunity to vent their feelings and you can show you understand their feelings. And it shows a good faith effort to address the problem before it gets out of hand.

LarryC · October 2004

We had an employee who, during his tenure with us, was acquitted of murdering his wife. He always had this crazed look locked on his face and,with a sinister laugh, joked that, "They never checked my freezer!" Before we terminated him we hired a security service to be on site during the termination and to patrol our grounds at certain intervals for a period of time afterward. They were visible, yet inconspicuous. Potentially violent terminations are their specialty.

When we did the termination, we had three managers in the room, making sure none of them blocked an exit for the employee. We had all the paperwork ready to give to him, including the termination wording. We usually do this anyway because people do not remember too much after the initial shock of reality. The meeting lasted three minutes and the employee left peacefully. The security people were in an open door office across the hall and in the parking lot.

I've had other occasion to call the police about potential danger, but unless a crime is or has been committed, they are kind of reluctant to respond.

Hiring a security service worked well for us.

System · October 2004

My take is this: An employee should NEVER be shocked by the fact that he's getting fired. If it's a surprise, someone didn't do their job right. The employee would have know that the act was egregious and immediate dismissal was in order, or would have been taken through progressive discipline and would have known the next step was discharge. So in the case where I believe the employee may become violent, I double check the paper trail to make sure he knows why he's reporting to HR.

During the termination meeting, my door is open and a supervisor is outside. Eye contact and brevity are the two most important things. I don't say "Do you know why you're here?" I say "You know why you're here." (The letter is already written, tri-folded and in an envelope.) I pause and wait for a reply. The employee explains why they are being fired (whether they agree or not - Never debate the issue) I explain their right to COBRA, retirement, vacation pay, etc. I ask them if they'd like me to walk them out. Surprisingly, some say 'yes.'

I've met with several 'potentially' violent employees in termination meetings. So far, have never had an outburst.

Balloonman1 · October 2004

Just because they know why they are being fired does not prevent them from being in shock when it happens S Moll. I think that is where the comment was coming from. Other than layoffs, terminations are, and you are should never be a surprise.
But some people are still shocked when it does happen.
My $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

System · October 2004

Yes, you're right. There's still a shock that it's really happening; but not the shock of not having known anything was coming.

LarryC · October 2004

s moll, I think we agree here. I am a firm believer in not having terminations come as a surprise. But, when they happen it is still a shock. I use the word "shock" to describe "stunned by the sudden reality". Kinda like someone dying a slow death and then our reaction to the death when it finally happens.

Don D · October 2004

I don't know the validity of this theory but I always use it since being told by a psychologist that it should always be done: Never say 'YOU' are being terminated. Always say "We have decided to end the employment relationship" or "Your employment at Johnson Woodie's is being terminated". Something about the personal aspect of it as opposed to the impersonal. I'll take their word for it.

Being what I am, I've never had any fear or concern for personal safety while in a termination meeting, but always handle it professionally and with as much respect as the situation will allow.

I don't know what I would do if I were a small woman having to terminate a potentially violent employee. I reckon I'd call S Moll in to assist me.

safety · October 2004

Tammy, I sent a private message to you but thought this would be better. I use what we call a “NOTICE OF INTENT TO DISCIPLINE” and issue it in a one sided conversation to an ee and escort them out of the facility. I always have another manager present during this event. The notice states they will be contacted for further direction. If we bring the ee back due to extenuating circumstances I call them and tell them to meet me on X date at X time for a meeting. It they are terminating I send a termination letter explaining reason(s) and ask them to contact me for a time to come to the facility to collect their personal belongings. When they arrive at the facility we always have several managers present to diffuse any situation that may occur. I also use Don’s language of "Your employment at company X is being terminated" and state the reason.

mrbill · October 2004

I have been involved in a number of potentially violent termination actions and I offer the following:
Keep it short and sweet.
Have some one with you.
Be prepared for the situation to go sour.
If you have a female in the area, have her take a walk.
Position some "Big" co-workers in the area.
If situation turns sour, place (force) the problem into a separate room and keep him (her ?) there for police action.

Luckily, I have never had a termination go sour, and it is always helpful to have the final check prepared.

Dasher · October 2004

My number one rule for termination meetings is to be sure not to rob the person of their dignity. Whether they yell or cry -- and I have had both, I attempt to make sure it is a courteous and dignified meeting. So far, so good.

ray a · October 2004

A few years ago we terminated the employment of an ee who had threatened to shoot his supervisor. He had a stash of weapons at home that he liked to brag about. He had a mountain man, loner type personality and he tended to scare even his coworkers. We discovered later he had made similar threats at a previous employer and was fired for it. Our facility is next door to the Sheriff and county jail and they sent 2 plain clothes detectives to assist. They sat in the lobby with pepper spray ready and we called the ee into the conference room across the hall from the lobby with the doors open so the detectives could observe and react if necessary. I had the ee's supervisor and manager with me and I did the talking. We told him exactly what we were doing and why. Made it short and sweet, escorted him immediately out the front door, and told him we would mail his possessions. The detectives followed him discretely to the PA border where he lived. Then provided us 24 hour guard duty for one month. Oh, and they had heavy duty fire power in their car.

Don D · October 2004

So, your fears were totally unfounded. Mountain men are gentle persons.

Balloonman1 · October 2004

Lesson learned: Prepare for the worst case, and be glad when it goes well.
My $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

WT · October 2004

You may want to concentrate on the future. Try something like, "Things just did not work out for you here but perhaps you will do better elsewhere." This points out that loss of job is not the end of the world; life goes on. The preparation advice is good, so be prepared for the worst case. As a general rule, if there is going to be violence, it does not happen at termination. Employees are never really prepared for that although they may know they are in trouble. Generally they believe they have one more warning left. Most cases of violence come after the discharged person has time to go home and stew about it. Watch very carefully for any signals from the discharged person after the fact and pay particular attention to facility access and security.

SamanthaQ · October 2004

We are a financial institution and most of our terminations go fairly well. We do what Don D said in that we try not to directly say "you are being terminated" but do so indirectly and let it sink in.

Sometimes they want to reason or negotiate and we try to discourage that and tell them that the decision has already been made.

Other times we have had them cry and shake or say that they didn't know the fraud they committed was wrong. It's best to just get to point and move on with the meeting. I find the best way to get things moving is to begin to go through my checklist of things I need them to turn in - keys, security swipe card, etc...and review any time off payouts they are owed.

I like to end the termination meeting by telling the person that it is our procedure for their supervisor to escort them to their workstation to get their things. They take this much better this way than if we just follow them around without explanation.

HRing · October 2004

I strive to make the termination short, to the point and respectful to the employee. The EE’s supervisor or the department manager is usually at my side during the termination. Having one of them at my side prevents (or helps prevent) an attempt by the EE to argue about the termination and helps reduce the chance of a violent reaction. Respect, Respect and Respect.

marc · October 2004

Tammy, you have some great input from the forum members. The only thing I would add came from a Captain in our county sheriffs office. He gave a general training regarding the potential for violence. The training had several parts, one of which involved methods for determining the potential for violence in a person - we use many of those types of methods with our client contacts - partly because some of our client base has been determined to have a higher propensity for violence than your average citizen.

Another aspect of the training centered around the concept of always trying to give the person a place to go. Do not just "stop" them, always provide an avenue for them to proceed. When they are asking for help of some sort, don't just say, "I can't help you" or "I don't know," instead have another step for them to take or person to talk to.

The phone number and address of the unemployment office would be one example. Having all the Cobra stuff ready and explaining it if the termed EE has enough presence of mind to ask about those things. Immediately returning personal objects or access to them is also important. If they feel they have been screwed and you also still have their stuff, it is an opportunity for them to build up pressure and stress around returning to the company and "setting things right."

In general, I favor the short and to the point meeting, with a well prepared agenda including finalizing as much of the contact with the company as possible. If you have "read" the EE as having a greater degree of propensity for violence, then having the local gendarmes or some sort of security present is adviseable. Picking the time of day is important, I like to do it as early as possible and as unobtrusively as possible. Finally, being prepared for various scenarios is important.

Firing scenario - what to say

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