References

ScorpioHR · August 2004

I am looking for some opinions/ experience with giving employee references. Both past and present ee's-At present, I only give written references. I have the request faxed to me and fill it out and return. I then file it in the ee file. I used to give verbal references and had a bad experience with that. An ee claimed that I gave a "no hire" status verbally over the phone when I had not done any such thing-Since it was a verbal, and their word against mine, I instituted the written only policy to avoid that going forward- I believe I saw a thread a bit back about what to put in the "probability of continued employment box" I am sorely tempted to write "crystal ball broken"...of course I have not done that, but, I am temptedx}> So, could I please have some feedback on how others handle references. Verbal or written? Do you answer re-hire status questions? Thank you.

ritaanz · August 2004

When I get a call for a reference, I tell them that it is company policy to VERIFY dates of employment and job title.

I know, I know, you also have to tell the caller the meaning of verify. I lost count how many times they hung up because they did not have the necessary information.

As to written references, unless the employee/ex-employee authorizes the form, I do not release any info.

Probability or re-hire status....I do not address. But the crystal ball one works for me. I'll try it and let you know.

jfletcher · August 2004

We also will only verify dates of employment and position held with the company over the phone...anything else MUST be faxed/mailed with an authorization form signed by the employee, even then salary info is the only other thing released...if the crystal ball doesn't work there is always the Great Karnak!

ray a · August 2004

I do the same as Ritaanz.

LarryC · August 2004

Scorpio, going beyond the valuable information other posters have told you, I'll explain what I do when I DO get the signed authorization allowing me to relate further information about the employee. I give facts only. For example, if asked to rate the employee's attendence record, rather than say it was poor, I would say,"The employee missed 20 days last calendar year for reasons other than vacation." That's fact. Let the other party form their own opinions. If asked to rate performance, I would say, "The employee scored a 3.7 out of a possible 5 on his last performance review." That's fact. I never answer the question, " Is the employee eligible for rehire?" Answering the question either way does nothing but invite further conjecture.

Hope this helps. FACTS ONLY!

Whatever · August 2004

I agree with everything Larry C. writes with one exception. His last sentence is FACTS ONLY! Performance reviews are not facts, they are opinions. We try to make them as accurate as possible, but in the end they are the result of human foibles. Therefore, I never give out performance reviews.

LarryC · August 2004

You are correct, Whatever. A performance review is exactly that...a review....a supervisor's opinion or assessment of an employee's performance. Based on that opinion, the employee ends up with a score of 3.7 out of a possible 5. THAT is a fact.

Don D · August 2004

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 08-09-04 AT 04:24PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Beyond employment dates and last job title, we don't give out anything unless the form is from a loan company and the ee is taking out a loan. I figure the employee can furnish the prospective employer with a copy of his last review if he wants them to have one. And I'll be damned if I'm going to dig into leave records to find out how many days somebody who no longer works here missed last year. I have never seen a faxed form that asks for facts. They always ask for responses that are opinions, speculations or assorted other subjective notions; attitude, ability to function as a team player, did she get along well, promotability, adherance to company policy, honesty, reliability, trustworthiness, etc.

POPEYE · August 2004

Written Policy: "The Human Resources Department will respond in writing only to those reference check inquiries that are submitted in writing. Responses to such inquiries will confirm only dates of employment, wage rates, and position(s) held. No employment data will be released without a written authorization and release signed by the individual who is the subject of the inquiry."

When I do get requests for additional info, I merely line through and write non-disclose per company policy.

ScorpioHR · August 2004

Thank you to everyone who responded-I love this forum thing!!!

However, please bear with me while I throw a kink in here-I received a verification request back today that I had sent out early last week- The ee's previous employer verified the dates of employment, filled in last job title, etc etc. On the bottom of the form was written "blank was an EXCELLENT employee, as well as a WONDERFUL human being, she will give your organization 150%-We are sorry to see her go"- Well now! The position was open between 2 different people, they both had the qualification's necessary to perform the job. I could not decide and was waiting for the references. I guess being a "little teeny bit cynical" I thought "oh yeah!" and proceeded to call her 2 references before the last job. They spoke glowingly of this woman. I called and offered her the job this afternoon-So, now to my question. In this day of "careful, careful, careful what you say", do you think we short change the people who truly were good ee's? The other ladies references came back with dates, job title, if she was an exceptional ee no one was willing to say so...In my last company, the only thing I could verify on behalf of the company was date, title, yada yada-Anything more I had to say was considered a "personal reference" is this what the above could fall under? I have ee's who have left on good terms, I would like to say more than the old dry, yeah they worked here x:-/

Don D · August 2004

On the bottom of the form was written "blank was an EXCELLENT employee, as well as a WONDERFUL human being, she will give your organization 150%-We are sorry to see her go"-

Yes, that is a personal comment and I would not give it any weight. Those are not facts. Those are speculative remarks. Might as well have said, "She was our brightest shining star and will always go the extra mile and work her buns off 24/7" Hooey!

Elle · August 2004

Don D, I agree you should not place any weight towards subjective comments but how would you make a final decision if you couldn't on just facts alone? Positive opinions should count as much as negative ones do.

I am always finding myself in similar situations such as Scorpio's. I am not sure where to draw the line between receiving or even giving helpful information. 90% of the time, candidates don't lie about their employment history anymore, that still doesn't always help me make a good hiring decision.

Don D · August 2004

It's sometimes a tough thing, deciding how much weight, if any, to give those subjective remarks, negative and positive. I've checked thousands of references on the telephone and have gotten some blisteringly negative comments about people. With experience, I think, comes an inate ability to sift through the BS, both types. If you get the wrong person on the phone who had a dislike for the applicant, count on hearing some dirt. It's just a sixth sense being able to sort it.

If I hear "You'll be lucky to get her. She was our best performer. We really hate to lose her." Then I'm going to feret out something else like, "She missed four days in three years. She kept the rest of the department in a great mood by designating each day of the week for dressing in a special color and ordering in box lunches on Wednesdays. And she was the organizational wizard of the department, and taught the rest of us how to organize our messes." The first group of comments had absolutely no meat in them. The second did. Probing is the key. I guess you'd have to come sit beside me for six years and let me teach you.

ritaanz · August 2004

90% of the time don't lie?? Where did you get that statistic? If you believe that, I have some beach front property for sale here in AZ.

Elle · August 2004

For the hiring I have done which has been all for professional positions, the % has been very small for dishonesty as far as time of service, position, all the factual information. Candidates know that they are going to checked as much as they can. I don't know many people many people that in professional positions that lie about something that can be proven these days. It is very well known that most places run reference checks, especially on previous employers (if listed).

ScorpioHR · August 2004

Here is my "final answer" (do I get one if I started the thread?) I think in the end, it is all a crap shoot. You can check their references, you can talk to their last 100 employers, you can background check, d.l.# check, call their ex-wives and children..In the end, they are either truthful and good ee's or not-I hired an ee in February, everything was good, on paper. The 2nd day on the job he fell and went out on wc-Come to learn he had FOUR wc claims before the one at my company-Since that was not something I could have known ahead of time, and I had done everything I knew to do...What was supposed to tell me? I have come to the conclusion my karma was off that day and hiring is not an exact science-Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't
#-o
p.s. the original EXCELLENT ee I posted this thread about could not accept the position after all-her children had to stay in the same state as their Dad-Think she might have checked this out before interviewing in another state???guess not.

Don D · August 2004

Every reference check company I have ever used will run work comp background as a matter of routine. I've always doubted how they could do that legally, but, they sure as hell do.

ScorpioHR · August 2004

That is illegal in the state where I live. Good for you-You must be special. I would not want to go there or defend how I received that information in a court of law.

Judith · August 2004

I also stick with FACTS therefore I do not rate performance. I also only do written info with ee's authorization. For the rehire question I answer "eligible for rehire" (unless they are not) but most everyone is. That does not mean that they would be rehired but they are eligible to apply for a position and be considered.

szemcumo · August 2004

Workers Comp check is part of our back ground checks also, however if someone has a claim we will only rescind the offer if they did not tell us about it on the conditional job offer form. Their not being truthful has kept us from having to hire those who try to make a living from comp claims. I would have been surprised if this ee would have listed all of his past claims therefore you would have had an out.

Craig D · August 2004

As far as "eligible for rehire" we have a policy not to rehire anyone. So my reply is exactly that "we do not rehire any ex-employee".

I agree with Don earlier that with over 20 years of hiring you get a sixth sense, and I find the best way to feel that sense is through the interview. We have very informal interviewing surroundings and present a relaxed atmosphere you will be surprized what people will tell you. And as long as you don't ask the illegal question you are safe.

References

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