Very uncomfortable situation

lavalier · July 2004

We have a new VP in our division who has a very disturbing habit. It seems to increase when he's nervous. He tucks/swipes/plucks at his pants. To be more specific, he repeatedly tucks his already tucked shirt into his pants, pulls up on his belt, does a "swipe" across his gential area touching himself and plucks on the backseat of his pants.

One of the other female managers and I have talked about this to each other and although it seemed funny to us at first, we find it uncomfortable to be in the same room with him.

I don't think it's intentional - but who knows. Maybe he has an anxiety disorder or he's OCD.

I could really use some advice on this. I'm not sure if I should talk to him or maybe go to my boss the VP of HR. I would like to nip this in the bud before an official complaint is made to me.

Thank you!!

Don D · July 2004

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-05-04 AT 04:51AM (CST)[/font][br][br]I suggest there are work related things besides his manerisms to obsess about. If the gentleman's habit(s) bother you two, look the other way. For God's sakes, none of us is entitled to have others alter their ticks to suit us. If you're into OCD/anxiety diagnosis, you're in the wrong profession. Why not learn something about the new guy, what he brings to the table, what he can contribute and what his values are, as opposed to how often he scratches. That might take your mind off his personal habits. I can't imagine that our colleagues on this site will actually suggest that Human Resources should confront somebody about a tick or habit. It's simply not a workplace conduct issue. If his boss thinks he ought to deal with it, his boss can call him in and bring it to his attention if it affects productivity or the bottom line. If we never hired people with oddities or eccentricities, very few of us would be employed. x:-)

System · July 2004

I say ignore it. When you have to converse with this guy, make eye contact and carry on with the business at hand (NPI). When and if an 'official' complaint is made, tell the complainer to make eye contact with this guy and ignore it.

System · July 2004

OK, let's forget the law, forget the diagnosis. He has an odd habit that could cause employees to lose respect for him and hurt his working relationships. There's a good chance he doesn't know how much he's doing it or that it bothers other people. Like the teacher on South Park who says "Okaaaaay?" at the end of every sentence.

Somebody (preferably a man and preferably his superior or equal) should mention to him that they notice him doing it a lot and it doesn't look professional. You owe him that much, okaaaay?

James Sokolowski
HRhero.com

System · July 2004

Ok, James. I could roll with that one; I just don't believe a formal complaint should evolve from it. We deal with lots of idiosyncrocies (sp?). I had a boss once who couldn't stand up, sit down, enter a room, leave it, or walk without 'rearranging' himself. It was a character/business/professional - whatever - development to focus on business and conduct myself professionally, of course, in spite of the 'would be' distraction.

WT · July 2004

All of us have habits and mannerisms and these seem to be magnified by stress. During one stressful time, I got to playing with my hair/ scratching my head. A friend at the office mentioned it to me. In less stressful times it went away. Another associate repeatedly reaches in her blouse to adjust her bra strap. With the newer fashions, an employee may be habitually pulling down a skirt whether it is riding up or not. In essence, these are things we do without conscious thought which may be necessary sometimes but are certainly not necessary every time we do them.

A new employee trying to learn a job, the people, and the general corporate culture may be under a good deal of stress. Your new VP may ease off on mannerisms after stress levels decrease. Otherwise, somebody who is his friend should take him aside and tell him.

rad · July 2004

I twirl my hair and rock back and forth in my seat when I'm anxious, frustrated or tired. A Jewish friend says I'd make the perfect Hasidim at the wailing wall. I don't even realize I'm doing it half the time, its just a reaction to stress.

dchr9203 · July 2004

Hmmm. Wonder what we would all have to say if it were a female VP constantly scratching her crotch, or deliberately pushing up her breast(s)? We tend to make "excuses" because its a man. Its a habit, albeit an offensive one, he probably doesn't realize he's doing it. I gotta tell ya if I was scratchin' and pushin' and/or pullin' and becoming the brunt of office jokes and losing credibility, I would hope somebody cared enough to privately mention it to me. After that, its up to me to fix it.

Dutch2 · July 2004

I agree, if his "habits" are to the point that they are a bother to other ee's and distract them from their work or make them feel uncomfortable,then someone should have the kindness to mention this to the VP, however, not in a formal manner. Who knows, maybe he was once a third base coach....
Good luck.

LisaMN · July 2004

Third base coaches with twitches remined me of an event that could be about actions and perceptions.

It's from my years as a stay at home mom. My son was 10 years old and we were watching Kirby Puckett step up to the plate in the World Series. Kirby made the sign of the cross before he took his stance and Mike turns to me and asks "What's he doing, Mom?" I of course explained the significance of the sign of the cross. The 1st pitch was a strike. On the next pitch they showed the third base coach giving the signals to Kirby. About the third time the coach pulled his ear and touched his nose Mike turned to me and said "He must be really religious!" xpray

If no one is close enough to speak to this guy as a friend, let it go. There's enough crap going on in the world to be offended by. Tell the complaining employee(s) this issue simply does not rise to the level that formal action would be taken.

Don D · July 2004

That's just the point! He IS tryin' to FIX IT. There was a female Operations Manager at this location several ago, I'm told, who was constantly doing just what you suggest, and more. Nobody suggested she quit scratching and digging. She eventually inherited the nickname "Booger" but we won't go into that. Let's consider Dutch's suggestion.

Tish · July 2004

If it was me, I certainly would want someone who would tackfully mention it to me. That my "habit" came across as unprofessional. When I first started in HR I had my manager critique my public speaking, disciplinary actions etc. So that I could grow and come across as professional. He was always tackful and very incouraging. Hopefully there is someone in his chain of command that could talk to him about it.

Gillian3 · July 2004

No, you can't just ignore it. If it has reached the level of being offensive to some then it has potential for a problem to the company, and our personal feeling about the seriousness, or lack of, is irrelevant. The first step is, as has been suggested, find someone who can talk to the guy, maybe the boss or a good friend. That's better, at this stage, than raising it to the level of the VP of HR. It certainly would get there if an official complaint was made.

Don D · July 2004

If you take all of the crayons in the 64 box anniversary special of Crayola Crayons, noticing the absence of those that have been deleted or renamed in the interest of political correctness, place them in a medium boiler on low heat, in about 40 minutes you will have a perfectly smooth liquid that's somewhat of a bland, brownish color, just a notch or two above desert tan. There will be no bright orange, no dull grey, no brilliant red or cobalt blue. You'll not find a lime green, a yellow ochre or a tangerine. Place wax paper on a cookie sheet, pour the melted liquid onto it and allow to cool. While still warm, slice into pencil shapes. Allow to cool completely and place back into box.

This is what so many advocate doing with every aspect of our society, including the workplace and all of it's behaviors. You counsel the lime green to look more saddle-brown. You admonish the fireman's red to get back in line and mimmick the sandstone.

Contrary to popular notion, America is not a 'melting pot'. America is a lively, colorful, fresh, garden salad. Nor can you melt down the American workplace to the point where it is a bland, mediocre venue of sameness of action and thought.

While the lady tugs at her strap, the gentleman retucks his shirt and plucks at the rear of his pants, while another young lady incessantly stretches and pushes her breasts forward, while the other guy continues his annoying cough, while the old man sits there with his mouth open almost at a drool while the older lady constantly scratches the underside of her left thigh nervously. The ensemble taken individually is irritating; but, as a whole, is a smorgasbord. Appreciate it, celebrate. Do not melt it down.

The same should be true, by the way, of The Employers Forum. :-?

LarryC · July 2004

I thoroughly enjoyed your crayon analogy. Back in my day we even had colors with names like, "Indian Red", and "Flesh". Great take on the situation, but didn't you contradict your own post #9 where you suggested that, according to Dutch, he should be counceled on his behavior? Or am I just up too early?

Don D · July 2004

You were up too early, but not nearly as early as I. What I liked about Dutch's suggestion was that the guy was a third base coach, not that he be coun(s)eled!

Ahh, yes, the dreaded Indian Red and Flesh. And there may have been others. But now we have mauve and goldenrod and fuschia (that I can't spell). End result is that they all melt down to the same exact color no matter whether your box is a starter set of 6 or the Christmas Blowout Box of 50.

This is referred to in the scientific community as Californiarization or 'The California Dynamic'.

Crout · July 2004

More like "California Syndrome." What bothers me is how employees have been taught to use the word "offensive" to describe every little thing they don't care for, as if it's a "right" to have their vision rose colored 24 hours a day. I'm sorry...I guess I'm old school, but where is the line drawn? A guy can't have a harmless, nervous tick without someone deciding it's not okay....if he just pulled his shirt, would THAT be okay? How many inches from the crotch area can his hand stray without it being a violation? Two? Three? Is one too close? Should someone be deputized to monitor the poor slob to make sure? Sweet Tomasso, it's just crazy.

Gillian3 · July 2004

That's not the issue. Potential risk to the company is, and that is how we should respond, no matter personal feelings.

mcmel · July 2004

I think "talking to" this guy because of his mannerisms would be out of line. What if somebody talked to you because you walked too fast, talked too loud, ate too fast. Where do you draw the line?

Somebody on this thread pointed out that if he's becoming the brunt of jokes in the office, he should be told about his ticks. Maybe the people making the jokes should look at themselves and determine if they are perfect and have no mannerisms that others are wondering about. Should the "jokers" be talked to because they are gossiping, harassing, wasting time?

Even the person who seems to have it together is occasionally going to have a slipping bra strap, a wedgie or an itch. x:)

Move on to something important.

System · July 2004

It's not out of line for a colleague or friend to talk to him as a note; not as counciling. It may save him some embarrassment. They should do it as a courtesy to him, not to appease the 'offendeds.' This isn't the same as walking fast and talking loud or eating too fast. You don't draw a line, you make a judgment call sometimes.

It goes without saying that none of us are perfect. If people wonder about a mannerism of mine, I say let 'em wonder. I might even do it more to give these jokers something to gossip about in all their spare time.

Oops. Gotta' go fix my shoulder pad. It slipped where it don't belong.

I agree, move on.

dchr9203 · July 2004

I don't read in the original post that we're talking about an occiasonal "quirk", nor is the problem that he's tucking his shirt in when it doesn't need to be. Neither is he just OCCASSIONALLY fixing, adjustmenting, scratching, or pulling. The guy is TOUCHING HIS PRIVATES in public on a REGULAR AND CONSISTENT basis that under pressure gets worse. Furthermore, comparing touching/pulling at privates with twirling hair or adjusting a bra strap is ridiculous, and look around. I don't know about your world, but in my world the majority of the people (note I say majority; yes there are exceptions) are not constantly publicly picking zits, noses, scratching behinds, and engaging in habits better left in private. As Ms. Clinton says "it takes a village". If they don't get the "home schooling" that teaches them manners and appropriate conduct for our culture, then the "village" should step in and in this case CYA the company. I still say common courtesy and respect dictate that the behavior be brought to the guy's attention. Otherwise, it'll be brought to his attention via a sexual harassment hostile environment claim.

Crout · July 2004

I didn't see any data associated with the original post, so I can't begin to make a judgement that the behavior is "consistent" or "regular." And SWIPING is not TOUCHING, again looking at the original post. I guess in the modern world that VP should go to a doctor I know over in Germantown, pay the $40 fee and get a certification that the behavior is part of a neurological disorder, so he can countersue the company for harassment under the ADA....just to protect himself.

Don D · July 2004

I would bet my left, ah, shoe that a judge would throw the offended, his attorney and this case straight out in the hall, hitch up his pants and adjourn to his chambers.

It is totally off the wall to reason that because this may or might someday translate to someone demanding that they are offended, you must act now to save the world. Invoking the name of Hillary Clinton surely doesn't help the debate. And, yes, the original post does mention tucking in an already tucked in shirt and plucking at the seat of his trousers.

This behavior, taken as a whole routine, is obviously an annoying habit, perhaps unsightly, maybe unpleasant, probably invoking laughter and snorting. However, it ain't gonna be upheld as sexual harassment unless you have a dunce investigating it. The man is not exactly grunting, hunching over and grinning while grabbing at himself when he sees a female, I assume.

We do not have an obligation to advise people that WE THINK their oddities MAY affect their credibility. Sure, someone may do it as a benevolent gesture of some sort, but there is no employer's obligation here. It very probably IS a symptom of OCD.

rad · July 2004

>This behavior, taken as a whole routine, is obviously an annoying habit, perhaps unsightly, maybe unpleasant, probably invoking laughter and snorting.

Don, I'm with you (again).

nail biting - grosses me out
teeth sucking - grosses me out
snorting noises - grosses me out
nail grooming - grosses me out
loud throat-clearing coughing - grosses me out
fingers digging in ears- grosses me out

I see and hear these things every day at work. And, yes, I've seen this behavior from executives while they gave a presentation in front of a group. What can I do? The fact that this person's nervous habits are centered around his crotch is unfortunate but imagine if the poor guy didn't have an outlet for his nervous energy.

JM in ATL · July 2004

It's true, people bring their personal grooming habits into work, mostly unconscious of the fact. While it may gross people out, or offend some, I think HR has enough to deal with than peoples habits and ticks.

Some habits are funny, some strange and some down right gross, but it's what makes us all different and keeps things interesting.

I worked with this one guy who always scratched is round belly when he was trying to answer a complicated computer question. It made me laugh on the inside b/c it kind of reminded me of Santa.

Then there was this other guy who ferociously scratched is piece-y, scraggaly beard, when he mumbled, er... talked rather. It was distracting to try to have a conversation with him, and most of all it grossed people out.

And to top them all off, we had this one lady, who was an excellent phone rep who had a "picking" problem. She constantly picked at her face until it scabbed. It was extremely gross. But it was part of who she was and there is nothing that can be done about it.

Me, myself; I'm a nail biter. Have been since a wee little kid. I completely and unconsciously do it, so I wear acrylic nails to keep myself from doing it and to keep my hands from looking all stubby and gross.

I'll take people with odd, strange, weird, or different habits any day of the week over someone who is just difficult to deal with.

I hope your situation with the pants plucker is resolved soon, however that resolution may come.

mwild31 · July 2004

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-07-04 AT 01:34PM (CST)[/font][br][br]I guess the similarity I see, and it could be just me, is comparing this situation to a body odor one. If enough people think someone stinks, then it's usually up to the supervisor or sometimes HR (depending on the organization) to say something. To me, it's no different. If you or a supervisor would say something then, because people are uncomfortable, then say something now about this situation. Otherwise, a nervous disposition is just that and relatively harmless (IMO). Geez, with this guy having such an obvious "tell" when he's under stress I sure hope he doesn't play poker or participate in negotiations...

Very uncomfortable situation

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