After hours conduct

An employee just celebrated her 30th birthday and a group of employees rented a limo and took her out of town to celebrate. The group included a V.P., 2 Managers, a subordinate of the managers' and the birthday girl. Some of the behavior went over the line,(drinking to excess, and pairing off of supervisors with people other than their significant others, who were left home), but not with any employee. The behavior was in bad taste, but not illegal.In additon,the limo was supplied by our customer's company. Should any disciplinary action be taken against the VP and managers, since this occured on their own time? The birthday girl is upset, because one of the paired off couples included her date! All parties involved have socialized often in the past.

Comments

  • 15 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • The only issue I see is that the limo was "supplied" by your customer. Does that mean it was free? Thats a big no-no where I work. Not much you can do about people who can't control their liquor or libido on their own time.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-19-04 AT 02:37PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Do you have an ethics or personal conduct policy in place? If not, bad judgment off hours is just that. The birthday girl may be upset...but it has nothing to do with 9 to 5...until, of course, this matter spills over into the work arena.

    The other angle you could look at is the limo...was it supplied free of charge? or did the birthday girl pay for it like anyone else? If she paid for it as any other customer would, then you may not have a lot of ground to stand on. Again, this is where a personal conduct policy would be helpful.

    It would be so nice if ee's could keep themselves out of trouble when they are away from us!!!


    edit...I see rad beat me to the limo angle!
  • The limo was paid for equally by all participants. Our policy addresses ethics at work, and suggests that behavior outside of work is a reflection on the employer, however, since they were out of town and not advertising who they were,(except to the limo driver, of course)no one else is aware of the issue. The grapevine at work is already in rare form, however.
  • Is this a riddle? If all these company employees went out in a limo and paired up with each other, but not with employees, who'd they pair up with? The driver? And on my fortieth birthday all the office gave me was black balloons and a tape of a funeral dirge. Damn!
  • They paired up with people they met at the clubs. She also got the black balloons treatment!
  • I just don't see the activity as an HR issue...the fallout might become one...but all participants involved need to be aware that work is work...and outside needs to stay outside.

    The rumor mill will find something else soon...

  • Do you mean that the birthday girls date went home with one of HER co-workers? That could make for a sticky working situation!
  • Josie, is there really a concern expressed by any of the emplyees or senior or executive management regarding this?

    Unloess you prohibt employees from socillizing wiht eahc other during off hours, or you have a policy prohibiting managers from socilalizing with their subordinates, I don't see a major problem.

    The use of the limo may be interesting. Why did the client pay for a limo for some of your emplyees. You may want ot chekc into that -- whether they "invoked" the name of the company to get th euse of the client's limo for their socilizing.

    By the way, assuming there is no job nexus and nothing they did was illegal as you state, if this were California, your company would be prohibited from discharging them. There is a provision in California law -- Labor Code Seciton 96(k) -- that no legally permited activity that is not a violation of company policy may be used as a basis for discharging an employee and of it is done, the State Labor Commission can sue for lost wages on behalf of the employee.
  • My Holy God! Wouldn't ya know it. Calimexifornia has a law that prohibits the discharge of employees for fornicating in after hours romps with co-workers involving company executives and peons. Why in the name of Zeus would the CA legislature even go there? So, otherwise CA is an at-will employment relationship state, right?
  • The birthday girl's boss heard about it and expressed her negative opinion. The limo was not free, the employees split the cost. The "bad behavior" was limited to "making out",nothing more- anything more is speculation or rumor. We don't have a policy that prohibits socializing, but this just looks bad and could have an affect on the managers' standing with lower level employees.
  • You might think about a policy, in case this happens again, that limits such limo excursions to, say, 20 minutes, tops. That way maybe it won't get beyond 'just making out'. Limos have some really long leather seats and lots of carpet!
  • I agree with others and believe that you shouldn't try to create policies to deal with every one-off situation. It's off-hours, so I wouldn't begin to even venture into those activities. This is just one thing you know about it, what about all the other things that go on that people aren't away of, or at least aren't aware of yet. Believe me, you try to create a policy restricting or prohibiting off-hour excursions and you're gonna hear about all of the others!
  • Wow. Now I know why I love living in NYC. If you want to party afterhours you don't have to leave town. In any case, any policy will open doors to areas you don't want to go to. I agree with the others, forget it.
  • The VP and managers probably used very poor judgment in conducting themselves this way, even outside the office (still in front of employees).
    They should be careful that their "pairing off" does not involve employees, especially those they supervise. I can see where this might lead to a sexual harassment charge if all the conditions were right.

    Let me give you an example. Party going on at a restaurant here in town involving a physician. Employee and spouse happen to show up at the restaurant - saw their co-workers and the doc. Went over to speak. The doc was intoxicated and started trying to stuff dollar bills down the front of the employee's shirt. Of course, she slapped his hand away - made an excuse that he was drunk, yada, yada. Anyway....the employee's spouse took issue with this conduct even though he knew the doc personally as well. The doc called and apologized to employee and spouse and everything was hunky dory.

    This employee had to be terminated because of performance which had been well documented before this event happened. Anyway....she filed a sexual harassment suit against this doc and we had to go through all the gyrations. The investigation into this event was well documented, our prompt response and reply to the incident was well documented...so we were able to put this matter to rest. This employee had been a long term employee and had a "friendly", social relationship with this physician before her untimely termination.

    This is just an example of how after hours conduct can turn into an ugly mess very quickly.


  • I am new to the forum although I have been reading it for a period of time. We had a simular situration,so I thought I would comment.
    We found that if you take action on this issue you could find yourself drawn into legal action such as defamation of character, significant other involement and etc. A policy maybe asking "a question you don't want to hear the answers to" such as other going ons. The position we took was to counsel the VP and managrs only on professional conduct and document the conversations.
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