Offensive clothing

I have an employee, the union president by the way, whose shirt today says something to the effect of, "I'm trying to see things your way but I can't stick my head that far up your a**" (I think I've got it almost verbatim). He came into a meeting with me this morning and after I read it, I told him I did not think that it was appropriate and his response was, "Oh, it's not that bad". I disagreed and he informed me that if someone complained that he would "do something about it" but not until. Technically we do not have a dress code so there isn't a written policy regarding vulgar clothing. Any thoughts on where I would stand in requiring this person to at least turn the shirt inside out?

Comments

  • 27 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-17-03 AT 08:06AM (CST)[/font][p]First of all, write a dress code. Second, he does have a complaint from....YOU!!!Either you or his supervisor should tell him to do something about the shirt immediately. If he refuses, it is insubordination and normal disciplinary procedures should be followed.
  • I had a similar situation where I almost passed out when a person walked into the office with a shirt that I thought said something else. Apparently there is a company that sells t-shirts called the french connection or something to that affect and the shirt she was wearing was from the uk, so the shirt said fcuk on it. After my double take and hanging my head from laughing too hard, she realized what I thought it said and said she wouldn't wear it again.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-17-03 AT 02:26PM (CST)[/font][p]re: the fcuk t-shirt, "she realized what I thought it said and said she wouldn't wear it again".

    You will never ever ever make me believe that she did not know in advance that EVERYONE who noticed that word on her shirt would think the same thing you did. Your EE just wanted to make a statement. Shame on her.



  • I think that as an employer you have the right to keep vulgar things such as these out of the work place, even though you may not have a dress code or his shirt is not directly spelling out the offensive word/words I feel it is close enough. Also, if you are letting the union president wear this, what are employees going to think they are entitled to wear...I could just see this getting out of hand with some EE's who will take things to the extreme. (I only say this b/c it has happend to me)
    Do you have a policy about inappropriate language? Just b/c this is in print, doesnt make it an execption. Just my thoughts, Good Luck x:)
  • You don't need a dress code - it's your turf. He can be sent home to change. If that's not convenient for you (doesn't mater if it's convenient for him) tell him to wear it inside-out. It's up to him to rectify the problem. You can draft a dress code later but some people will deliberately find a loophole and go out of bounds. Your dress code should set guidelines and include "anything that management considers inappropriate for the workplace."

    Dress codes seem to be an invitation for non-violent rebellion. It does, however, create a diversion for both management and staff. These EE's would be challenging something else anyway.


  • Devil's Advocate here : We of course are assuming that the offensive T-shirts are written in English. Now, what if another employee had come in with a T-shirt saying the same offensive words in some distant language ? Now, suppose that only the employee can read what is on his/her T-shirt, but he/she tells a supervisor what is on the T-shirt . Is sending only the wearer of an English language T-shirt home the option , or should both wearers of the offensive T-shirts be sent home?

    Chari


  • If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there is hear it?
  • If a T-Shirt is worn that has cryptic language or paleontolic symbols simulating sex, and no one understands its message, I don't suppose it matters. However, once the message is offensive or is perceived to be offensive or has the practical application of offense, it must be dealt with. We do not yet live in an age when an employer must succumb to this sort of trash. The manufacturer of the shirt as well as the wearer both knew perfectly well what the shock value of it would be. It was not created in the United kingdom in the first place. This notion of freedom of speech on private property is crap. It is an imaginary right that must be challenged, since it does not exist. No, you do not have to have a dress code to cite this as insubordination if the wearer does not comply immediately. One warning, jerk his timecard. If she's salaried, five days suspended without pay.
  • You municipals take care to read ol Don carefully:'freedom of speech on private property ' is crap.' You know you don't have Don's luxury.
  • If the meeting was between "union" and "management" rather than "employee" and "supervisor", you need to take a different approahc.

    Make your objections known as management's representative. But since you don't have a dress code, and probably emplyees in your office have worn similar shirts over the yers without problem, you shouldn't stop the union-managment meetng. However, next time, just arrange for the meeting to be held off company grounds. Remember, at the time he meets with you as union presdient, he has equal status. Whether you terminate meetings on the basis he wears the t-shirt during those meetings is something you need to consider crefuly and discuss with executive management and legal counsel. You dont' want to be charged with "lack of good-faith bargaining."
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-18-03 AT 02:01PM (CST)[/font][p]On the other hand, the company has an equal claim of questionable good-faith bargaining. It cuts both ways and neither party to the meeting has a right to be disruptive or disrespectful. Lack of a dress code in a union environment does not mean that an employer is precluded from expecting some decorum at his facility. Those working in a employer-union relationship know that you cannot have all these meetings off site. Hell, sometimes they occur every couple of hours. Just an alternate perspective.

    Between the California and Vermont legislatures and the NLRB, I suspect this nation will have zero manufacturing companies within 15 years.
  • That is one of the scary thoughts. All of this may lead us to a more global perspective, but the price we all pay along the way is significant to say the least.
  • Yes, will China someday manufacture our military ordnance? Will the combined Korea manufacture our rockets? Will India and Pakistan manufacture our F-16's and F-17's? Humvees built in Columbia.
  • Toss in irresponsible private industries as well.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-20-03 AT 07:11AM (CST)[/font][p]Shadowfax,

    Sure we do!
  • I don't understand why there has to be a union-management meeting. This is an employee-management issue. If the ee wants to file a grievance, so be it. Worst case scenario, it goes to arbitration. Union can't win and knows it.
  • I can't for the life of me, see where an employer, union or not, would have to put up with someone wearing an offensive slogan on a piece of clothing for everyone to see. I'd just tell them it was not appropriate wear for work and if they wore it again, they would be sent home to change without pay.


  • I'd just tell them it was not
    >appropriate wear for work and if they wore it again, they would be
    >sent home to change without pay.

    Rockie,

    I had to do the very thing last week. I sent 2 employees home to change (with pay the first time) and without pay if they had to be sent home again. Both employees were highly miffed at me. Both came back and appologized. We (HR people) understand the psychology behind non-violent rebellion. We just don't have to accept it all the time. - Though I like to get my digs in once in a while.

    "Sam"


  • A solution to inappropriate attire at one of our schools;

    Wear a piece (or pieces) of clothing that don't meet our appearance standard, and we won't send you home, instead you'll have to replace that item with something from the "ugly box". The ugly box is filled with ugly looking items that meet the appearance standards.

    Wearing a cropped top with spaghetti straps? Replace it with the lime-green polyester leisure suit jacket.
    Wearing low-rise jeans that expose some belly? Replace them with the brown and orange plaid polyester bell bottoms.

    Repeated offenses will lead the disciplinary action, but the first time one has to wear an ugly item is usually the last.

  • HRQ,
    I think that is GREAT! I think all schools maybe even employers need and UGLY BOX x:)
  • Wish I could say it was MY idea! I'll pass on the compliment to the school director who came up with it. x:D
  • We did something similar with our old company t-shirts designed in the '70's. Nuff' said
  • There was a thread in HR-d-har-har where a study had been done and as long as the first and last letter of the word were intact, your mind is going to see exactly what it's intended to see. And it worked with words a lot longer the 4 letters - the whole paragraph talking about the study was written that way.

    She knew what she had on and I would have sent her home to change. The guy...turn it inside out and don't wear it again.
  • Aoccdrning to rscheearch at Txes M&A Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
  • The funniest story I have about a F--- Y-- T-shirt happened to our family. My son was in second grade. One day while dressing he took a small red t-shirt (hidden) in his Dad's dresser drawer and put it on under a sweatshirt. The shirt had F--- Y--- write in arabic-type up side down. He didn't understand the wording. We never had the heart to toss it - it was such a novelty. Anyway, we get a call from school. Chris took his sweatshirt off in music class, and couldn't understand why his teacher freaked out and sent him to the principals office. We were so embarassed!
  • Dear LindaS in Wisconsin: You have such an interesting place to work! I am in Wisconsin, too and would love to visit your plant. Do you do tours?

    Maggie from Lake Geneva
  • If you go, be careful about wearing T-shirts with slogans. They might send you home to change it or make you wear something from the Ugly Bin. x:D

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