First Timer at Unemploment Hearing

lnelson · August 2003

What can I expect? The claimant is listing a multitude of reasons why she was terminated. But, in actually it was only 3 reasons. 1) Being her misuse of computer system (emailing documents to outside address w/o supervisor permission), 2) Complaints from customers regarding her attitude when answering phones (she was receptionist), 3) Making remarks about the company and supervisors to new employee which she denied but, have witness to statements.

I have documentation on all of these issues but, do not have anything from customers in writing is this a problem?

Help! Hearing in a week.

HR in CA · August 2003

My experience is that if you do not have the customer complaint in writing you do not have a customer complaint. Take all of your documentation (make 2 sets of copies) with you. Did you capture these issues and present them to her in writing? If so did she sign that she received them? If so, bring the signed document. If the misuse of the company computer violates a written company policy, bring the policy and her acknowledgement page she signed when she received the policy.

Lastly, as you well know California laws favor the employee. I heard recently that an employee was let go for failure to show up to work. The ee said it was beacuse he was drunk and has passed out in his car for three consecutive days. He was granted unemployment. So don't be discouraged if you are not successful.

deniseE · August 2003

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT.

The laws may differ in CA...but I imagine things are pretty much the same. If you are prepared to offer some sort of written summary of her infractions...bring along those that witnessed the infraction and could testify if called upon.

It all depends on the hearing examiner...some will let a written statement suffice...others have required the individual be present...we were not prepared and lost several winnable cases. So now, even when it may be a waste of time..we go prepared with an entourage.

Good luck!!!

Don D · August 2003

I hate to be the pessimist here; but, since your decision is being made in California, I would suggest you not even attend the hearing. I personally lost a telephone hearing regarding a California truck driver who abandoned the truck, made no contact with our company 2500 miles over here in MS, let a load of product ruin, caused a multitude of tickets on the windshield, apparently quit and said she went home because she thought she was needed more by her daughter who was having school problems. Now we hear from another employer who had a 3-day-drunk-no-call-no-show and they were allowed to draw too. Good luck with this one.

lnelson · August 2003

Boy, from the sound of it, it does not seem to be a winnable fight. If you have severe offenders collecting.x:o (Letter o) Seems a waste of my time and those who may attend with me.

Is it worth the headache?? If it is favorable for the employee does this affect any further claims they may have down the road?

SandiF · August 2003

In Washington state, you better have a very good reason for wanting to deny benefits. If the employee is let go for any reason, I don't even question it. I just had a telephone hearing - the ex-employee had voluntarily quit because we wouldn't accommodate her hours. She wanted to work 30; the job was a 40-hour. We didn't need to say much; we let the employee do the talking and she kept shooting herself in the foot. It was kind of fun. x}> We got the decision TWO days later - benefits denied. With a voluntary quit, sometimes the employee will end up getting benefits, but as long as I've told unemployment that it was voluntary, it doen't go against our credit rating.

mwild31 · August 2003

Hi

Every state is different as far as how these meetings go and where they take place. Here's what occurs in my State - or at least our local UI offices: (I'm not sure if your meeting is in person or over the phone - but I'll respond as if it's in person x:-))

1. Bring the personnel file and all supporting doc's - I would arrange them according to date and type - i.e. written warnings, documented verbal warnings, exit meeting notes etc.
2. Show up about 10 minutes early and let the front desk know you are there - they usually sign you in & then tell you where the meeting will be held.
3. Go to the meeting area. If the employee shows (which is always in question x;-)), don't talk to the employee - unless it's purely civil conversations - you don't want to get involved in a debate outside of the meeting room.
4. Once your name is called, go into the meeting. Where I'm from - it's a very, very small room - the tables are set up in a T-format with the judge sitting in front and employee sitting on one side of the table (forms the base of the T) and the employer opposite the employee.
5. The judge will verify the information and swear everyone in.
6. The employee gets to state their side of the story first - do yourself a favor and do not make noises or in any way interrupt the proceedings - just take notes. (This was key in my recent case as the employee kept doing all of the things I'm cautioning you on & the judge became very upset & frustrated with the employee).
7. You will get a turn to reply to the comments the employee made as well as state the company's position. While it is not necessary to have written statements from the customers - it is helpful. Without them, just be prepared to state when (date & times) the complaints started happening & what action was taken (if you did not immediately terminate).
8. The employee will get another chance to respond & then you'll get a final chance.
9. The judge will say 'thanks for coming in & I'll make my decision and notify you in ______ days/weeks', etc.

That's it - once the decision letter comes in - if you still disagree - you can pursue it.

Most importantly, as I think we have established on another thread, the company pays the UI premiums - not the employee. Don't feel intimidated or as though you are somehow cheating the employee out of a benefit. As the judge from one of my cases stated:

"...the world of work is fraught with continuous irritations, wounded sensibilities, and frustrations which are largely unavoidable given the best of intentions, and which all who participate in the work force must tolerate in the interest of earning a living..."

I hope this helps & does not inflame controversy, amen. x0:)

Whatever · August 2003

I agree with everything but I would add that in New York the employee is allowed to hire an attorney. Don't be intimidated by the attorney. If an unemployment hearing is the best case the attorney can get, he/she cannot be very good.

HRsage · August 2003

I would definately recommend going to the hearing, especially since it's your first one. It's a good experience. All the advice mentioned before is great. Documentation is key. I think your best bet is the violation of the email policies. Show your policy and show her acknowledgement of the policy if you have it in writing. I've only had to go to 2 hearings so far, but I've won both, so it is possible to do in CA. You are also allowed to question the ee at the hearing so take good notes to what she says and have some key questions prepared. Good luck.

Balloonman · August 2003

Great advice, prepare like heck, expect to lose and maybe you get pleasantly surprised. I only challenge them when they are for cause, and have a pretty good track record. I find on the initial paperwork, many of them lie...........that is where good documentation comes in.
my $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman

juju · August 2003

As far as the misuse of the computer, definitely bring any policies you have on the topic and any acknowledgements she may have signed showing that she received them. Also, unless you can get the new employee who heard her badmouth the company in to testify, it may be considered heresay.

Good luck!

Tish · August 2003

After reading through all the posts it makes me thankful one more time that I am in Minnesota and not California. I've had to attend several Unemployment hearings in the 2.5 yrs that I have been in HR. Here in MN it is extremely important to attend - if we can prove just cause in termination if any funds are collected by the ee it doesn't go against our credit rating.

Good Luck and enjoy the experience.

Crout · August 2003

If you have ANY indication whatsoever that the former EE is bringing an attorney, then you should do so as well. You gotta have a level playing field. I always check the documents sent to us by the UC office to see if they were cc'd to an attorney.

System · August 2003

I agree with the notion that attorneys who regularly attend UI hearings either don't have much to do or it's the best action they can get....or is that redundant? The system limits the amount they can charge and they also have to eat, if only TV dinners. I will advise you also to NEVER carry a personnel file to a hearing. Not to a UI hearing or a workers' comp hearing or a DOL hearing of any sort including EEOC fact finding conferences. An opposing attorney in any hearing need only to ask you for the file once you open it and VOILA!, he has it in his hands, granted by the hearing officer. This can be disastrous. Take only those documents related to the termination, those leading up to it and those supporting it, nothing else other than copies of your policies backing up your actions. Taking a copy of your Policies Manual is about the same. An opposing attorney, struggling to seize straws, will have your manual in hand in one motion and will pour through it asking you to explain this and that and that over there, all in an attempt to pursuade the hearing officer that either you are incompetent or your policies are not well formed. Advice: Prepare diligently and take only that which you expect to testify from. One other piece of advice: In every hearing I have been in for the past 20 years, the claimant will ALWAYS bring up Sally or John or other terminations or other employees who were mistreated or told her this or that or who were retained for the same offense. When it comes my time to cross examine the witness (claimant), I always repeat verbatim what they said from my notes and then ask, Do you have this witness with you today? Is this person here to offer testimony today? If not, is this your opinion or do you have with you today anything that might corroborate your statement? Are you telling the court that you do not have these witnesses to corroborate the testimony you just gave?

Eliant · August 2003

I'm in California...
It's as bad as it appears. Yes, the EDD is employee friendly, but that also depends on the judge you get. Make sure that you have plenty of documentation, coaching, counseling, suspensions etc.. Make three copies, one for the the judge, one for you and yes of course in case the employee develops anal retention dificit disorder (ARDD). Present the facts, and see what happens. I never give up, we all have ob to do. The employee to try to get away with as much as possible, the judge to justify his salary and time and us... well to share with each other our war wounds so we can learn from each other.
Good Luck...

mwild31 · August 2003

If there is an attorney present at this meeting, I would be surprised if they haven't already subpoenaed the personnel file prior to the meeting.

Have you decided whether or not to attend the meeting?

lnelson · August 2003

Thank you for all the support and help. I will be attending the hearing although I am a bit nervous.

I am preparing all my documentation and some key questions. I just hope I can speak when the time comes.

I will let everyone know how it went.

THANK YOU ALL.

gillian2 · August 2003

Unemployment in California is not a great deal different than other states - all unemployment regs favor the employee. Just go with your documentation, state the facts, don't get upset or argue and follow the lead of the hearings officer. You don't need an attorney.

Pork · August 2003

IT COULD BE A CONCERN! I would concentrate my presentation of the company's actions with documentation on count 1) & 3). If one and three are violations of written company policy and supported with proper sequence of disciplinary action, you should not have an issue with the hearing to go your way. Even if you were to loose at the hearing level you should appeal any over ruling of the exercise of written company policy and your execution of the company policy on discipline. Count 2) is a "shoe" that you can easily comprimize or give up is forced. It does not matter as long as at least one of your counts is subject to termination. You might get a little egg on your face if you are asked to defend with no customer complaints in written or personal testimony format!

Good defending and may your hearing date find you and your company having a Blessed date. If you are doing what is right and good, so it will be.

EAT MORE DUCK FOR THE REST OF THIS WEEK; FOR THE DUCKS ARE IN HOT, HOT, SOUTH THIS WEEK, GO DAWGS!!!

PORK

First Timer at Unemploment Hearing

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