Invalid SSN's

JodiSD · February 2003

I just started at a company that has had little or no HR in place for two years and I've been "cleaning house". None of the I-9's have ever been completed correctly so I'm doing a mass I-9 makeover in hopes that the INS will see that we've made a good faith effort to fix our files. My question is that we have many employees without a valid SSN. We've received notification from the SSA that they don't match, but our employees won't go there to try and fix it because we've heard "through the grapevine", that they know they're not valid. What can I do? Is it illegal to terminate them (they've been given ample time to provide legal documentation) or do we keep them on? I have been to the INS & SSA websites and cannot get a straightforward answer. Please help! Thanks.

LindaS · February 2003

The letter you received from SSA should give you pretty straightforward instructions on what to do. If memory serves correctly you have to notify the individual that you received information from SSA that there is a problem and provide them 30 days to correct the situation. If they do not provide you with either a valid SS number or the notice from SSA that they have applied for a corrected card, you are free to terminate them based on the fact that their information is not accurate.

I have run into this problem before and have terminated individuals for not providing the corrected information.

Whatever · February 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 02-25-03 AT 07:59AM (CST)[/font][p]The letter you received from social security should have a telelphone # to call with questions. Any employee who cannot present a corrected social security card should be terminated. Furthermore, social security has a telephone number so that employees can check the validity of a number. We do this for ALL new employees. The number is 800-772-6270. You will need the employers ein, the name of the employee (as it appears on the s.s. card), the date of birth of the employee and their gender.

Riley · February 2003

What happens if you offer them a position, you verify their number and its not valid? Do you do the same, offer 30 days to start the process, and if they don't, fire?

LindaS · February 2003

When I am completing a background check for a potential employee, one of the items that is automatically checked is the SS#. They (the company we outsource this to) are able to tell me immediately if the number I give them is valid. I actually had an instance recently wherein the number did not show up as valid. I then contacted our local SSA office and asked for their verification, which in this instance confirmed what the outsourcing company initially stated. I then contacted the applicant and informed them of the problem. I did NOT give them 30 days but informed them they must immediately take care of the problem (I think I gave this person until the end of the week). If they are not able to provide me with documented proof that they have begun the process of obtaining a correct card, I do not start them. If, down the road, the situation changes and we are currently hiring I will give them another chance.

The thirty days I am talking about is when you receive the list from SSA each year that shows the social security numbers that do not match their records.

Whatever · February 2003

Offer is provided that social security number is valid. If not, they cannot start. Only occasionally does someone return within a day or two with the corrected card. Usually, they are never heard from again.

Pork · February 2003

JodySD: Your post reads to me like you have some employees who have falsified a company document and if your employee handbook is properly written you will have no problem with an immediate dismissal for providing false information.

Once the individual is out the door, you will have done all you can do. I have contacted the INS to inform of the location of illegals and they remain in the area. In fact, I have one that I would bet is the same hispanic we terminated a year earlier, but I am the only one who remembers the face and his smile. His papers looked good and they do not match our records; he has been a model employee, like he was a year ago and then went back to Mexico so he said.

Unfortunately, for us the individual will buy a new SS number and be on my door step ready to fill out yet another bad application. I, of course, am faced with the need for good migrant workers with proper ID (which looks good to me)that I should not check before we offer a position and put the individual to work. Immediately after enrolling the individual they are now asking for assistance in applying for a change in status, which once they ask for assistance we are obligated under our employee assistance possibility to submit the application and the individual becomes protected by national origin and INS/DOL laws.

Bottom line is don't hesitate to terminate an employee with bad information as long as you have found out the information before they ask for the change of status application. My thoughts, Pork

HRsage · February 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 02-25-03 AT 03:39PM (CST)[/font][p]I had to deal with this same situation last year. This is a little bit different than a falsified application and then terming, if I remember correctly. Since SSA had informed us of the descrepancy (spelling?) we had to meet with each person from the list and asked them if the SSN we had on file was correct. If they said that it was correct, then we had to suspend them and they had to go the the SSA office and clear up the descrepancy with SSA. We had to give them a reasonable amount of time to clear it up, (about 2 weeks)if it wasn't cleared up by then we termed them. If they admitted to using a false number then we just went ahead and termed them for falsifying the application. Most people were suspended and never came back, some simply admitted to using a fake number. And believe me, I was surprised by some of the people that didn't have valid numbers, I would have thought they were born and raised in the U.S. Sometimes the SSA will say it's a descrepancy because of the name on file. You might have a middle intial and they don't, or maybe it's a maiden name or something like that. Good luck.

JodiSD · February 2003

Thanks for all the helpful information! We're going to let all those go who still haven't provided legal documentation and go from there. I do call and verify SSN's now after hiring, but what a nightmare to let all these people go and rehire! (sigh)

. Thanks again for everyone's help!

CARCRAZY · February 2003

We have also received such letters. We send a letter to the individual explaining the situation and giving them 30 days to correct. It is in the employee's best interest to correct this for their records. If it is an invalid #, all their earnings are being posted to the wrong person, which will ultimately impact disability/retirement benefits.

If after 30 days the employee has not corrected, it is usually because they are not legal to work in the US. If they have not corrected by the 30 days, we do terminate.

Ruskanen · February 2003

Check out this link: [url]http://www.hrhero.com/cgi-bin/employersforum/employersforum.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1278&forum=DCForumID14&archive=yes[/url]

It sounds like you found a resolution to your problem. We had the same situation here. Then we had a visit from the INS to audit our paperwork. We ended up losing 39 people, although peacefully and without anyone being taken into custody. Now, when people apply and they present me with false ID I tell them, "The INS has visited us several times and I don't think you want the stress of working here if your ID isn't valid. We don't want you to have any trouble working here and we don't want to cause any problems for our current employees." Most people understand, take their fake ID and leave. You can write to me at [email]lruskanen@ankmar.com[/email] if you have any questions on how we handled the situation.

Invalid SSN's

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