Cobra arra

NaeNae55

I am really confused. I admit, I did not pay much attention to all this because we have such a low turnover and the ARRA ends 12/31/09. However, I recently had an employee term and I am confused about whether ARRA applies.

My understanding was that it applied to anyone who was termed except for gross misconduct. I know one of the top HR people at our owner company was fighting this because she didn't believe it could be possible. The last I heard she was waiting to hear from SHRM, but in my mind it was a done deal.

I requested updated COBRA papers from the owner company and they sent me the usual. When I asked about ARRA, I was told that it was assumed this was a voluntary termination.

The voluntary part is up for debate around here, but in the meantime, does it matter? Do we NOT have to apply ARRA to voluntary terminations? Did the DOL come back and say it was only for involuntary terms?


EDIT:

Never mind. I found my answer on the IRS website. It applies only to those who involuntarily leave.

sonny

The problem I have experienced is in the definition. It is for INVOLUNTARY BUT you can appeal. Here is what happened to us. A guy resigns voluntarily, albeit in lieu of termination for misconduct but not gross misconduct. We register him as voluntary. They denied him. He appeals. He wins. We pay. I had hoped this might be a benefit for those ee's we laid off d/t lack of work, not for jerks. Have another ee who was truly laid off for lack of work. . involuntary. . but he is not eligble b/c he is eligble for Medicare. Don't know if this helps but it has been our experience. We are not paying for anyone who ie resigned with notice and went to another job voluntarily.

System

Ashley Gillihan, a lawyer with Alston + Bird in Atlanta, submitted a post today for our HR News blog that says he is betting on an extension of the COBRA subsidy, which will begin to run out for some people on December 1 and is advising clients to prepare for that possibility. You can read the post at [url]http://employmentlawpost.com/hrnews/2009/10/07/our-best-benefits-bet-congress-will-extend-cobra-subsidy/[/url]

NaeNae55

Good for the unemployed, but as an employer all I can say is...oh joy.

ACU Frank

I have assumed since Day 1 an extension would be passed. It's no big deal from our point of view.

joannie

I'm still having a problem with an ee termed for misconduct getting subsidized COBRA since their definition of gross misconduct is much tighter than mine.

sonny

AMEN to that!!

bethk

Joannie, whose definition? I couldn't find a definition of gross misconduct anywhere. We had a couple employees who were termed for sexual misconduct and theft. To me, that is gross misconduct but we were told ALL involuntary terms should be considered ARRA eligible to be on the safe side.

NaeNae55

IMHO it's the same 'gross misconduct' as used with COBRA. In other words, they pretty much have to have physically harmed someone.

joannie

[quote=bethk;717905]Joannie, whose definition? I couldn't find a definition of gross misconduct anywhere. We had a couple employees who were termed for sexual misconduct and theft. To me, that is gross misconduct but we were told ALL involuntary terms should be considered ARRA eligible to be on the safe side.[/quote]

Beth, my friend, you have a point. However, I would be willing to take the chance of defending a sexual misconduct and theft termination as gross misconduct rather than allow the offenders a subsidy. Same with unemployment insurance, I would appeal it all the way to the top if that type of offense was not considered gross misconduct.

bethk

Thankfully those employees didn't elect COBRA. As far as unemployment, I fight it as high as I can also. Gets my blood boiling.

We had one case recently were the manager was rubbing up against the girls as they leaned out the drive through window handing out orders. He even flat out asked them for sex. Finally one girl complained, and I give her a lot of credit for that. Most teenagers would be too scared to. When the general manager talked to the judge at the first hearing, the judge said it was hearsay since the girl wasn't on the phone. This was after we were told she wouldn't need to be there. We had her written statement and statements from witnesses. The judge declared it was not misconduct and was hearsay and the termed manager would receive benefits. Made me wonder what kind of character the judge had that he was so willing to let this pass. He also told the gm that this decision was final and could not be contested! Oh yeah!?!?!?! What !?!?! Watch me!!! We asked for another hearing with another judge and got it. And, of course we won. The second judge had character.

The first judge's response and attitude had me wondering what he did in his spare time! ::angryface:: Ok....ok......I'm taking a deep breath now!

NaeNae55

Or who he knows. It is quite apparent he is not up to the task of being a fair judge either way.