NSA....KGB...what's the difference?

Crout

How ironic that at the very moment our President is trying to market our "democratic values" throughout the Middle East we see stark evidence that he has very little regard for the rule of law and our own democratic institutions.

Gillian3

The letters.

Parabeagle

I am appalled at what Bush has done as well, but there is precedent for it in this country. All you have to do is think back to the McCarthy (Joseph, not Eugene) era and J. Edgar Hoover's antics. Yes, we stopped them and I'm sure this will also be stopped, in time.

The fact is that we have entered a new era where our laws and civil protections have not kept pace with the increase in technologies. To expect to be able to go through a legal process for approval which can take days could result in critical communications going unintercepted. At the risk of sounding like a knee-jerk conservative, what would happen if one of those missed intercepts resulted in a terrorist attack on our soil?

Just food for thought. I don't condone what Bush has done at all, but I think it needs to be looked at within the context of a new technological era. Ideology does not always work in the real world.

Gillian3

True, Parabeagle, but if I understand correctly, the law which was supposedly circumvented in the interest of expediency, already has a loophole which allows the wiretapping to take place immediately, subject to going to the court within 72 hours. I agree that all the laws should be reviewed with the changes in technology in mind, so that they accomplish what we need, without damaging our civil rights to the degree that is possible.

Crout

>The fact is that we have entered a new era where our laws and civil protections have not kept pace with the increase in technologies. To
>expect to be able to go through a legal process
>for approval which can take days could result in critical communications going unintercepted. At the risk of sounding like a knee-jerk
>conservative, what would happen if one of those
>missed intercepts resulted in a terrorist attack on our soil?

Beag, I agree completely, and so the President has a dilemma: He swore an oath (upon a Bible no less) to faithfully execute the laws and uphold the Constitution. But, as you said, we live in a new and dangerous time...what to do? I would say to go ahead and work within the established framework. Trust in the democratic system...go to the Congress and lay out the necessity for changing the law to allow for more flexibility and shorten the reaction time. That's the problem I have with Bush, and there's the irony....he tells the world how wonderful democracy is, and then circumvents the democratic process because he doesn't trust it. If the President is allowed to violate the law by secret Executive Order and spy on citizens without a warrant, what is to prevent the President from signing another secret order to throw citizens in jail without a warrant?