[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-22-04 AT 08:12AM (CST)[/font][br][br]I think Judy has made wonderful points. I do think we should let her go on and on - I for one love it. Wouldn't you guys love to sit down in a room together and discuss this. I think we are all a group of intelligent people that respect each other and it would be interesting. I think we would have to have a moderator or everyone would be talking at the same time. I just keep going back to the fact the I have a 19 year old son and a 22 year old daughter that tell me no one their age really understands what joining the Armed Forces can mean to them. Oh I'm sure they do now but it is sad to think about the kids that are dying in Iraq joined for free education and travel (as the commercials and recruiters say). You think I am too head strong, you should listen to my daughter (and she is pursuing a degree in HR Management.) Go figure! I have heard many vets speak about the Vietnam war and the things they saw and were even ordered to do. These are some of the reasons so many vets came back with poor mental health. I agree with Judy in saying the John Kerry had the courage to stand up and talk about the things that happened. And Don - When you said your friend was lying there wondering why he was shot were you saying he didn't think we should be there?
The vascillator is goose hunting in Iowa today. What does he need with a goose? His goose is already cooked. Someone handed him a shotgun and showed him how to pump one into the chamber. He's suddenly got cammo britches on and is a friend to gunowners and hunters across America.
I understand the senator from MA wished the Boston White Sox well today.
Speaking of Boston..... "HOW 'BOUT THEM RED SOX?".......comin' back from three games down. The Card's and Astro's in game seven tonight. Only outcome (in my opinion) that could have been better was if the Cubbies were playing the Red Sox in the World Series. Dutch2
Hey Wild! You want separation of church and state. You didn't want a person's faith coloring his decision yada, yada, yada.
Lord knows I would never push or shove my principles or values on you. But it is my values and beliefs that compeled me to jump in and ask you those questions. If the president had the ability OR felt he had an obligation to separate his values/principles, from what? If I took my values and put them on a shelf, what do I have left? My religious beliefs do not come into play when I am making management decisions, but my values and principles do and they guide me to make the best choices or determinations. They will be the same whether the person/people in question are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.
All people have values and principles of one sort or another. Not all people have a religious denomination. That separation you are looking for exists between the church/temple/synagogue and the government not between man and his soul.
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-22-04 AT 01:16PM (CST)[/font][br][br]While I do not agree with her conclusions, I will say that at least Mwild is making an assessment that makes sense to her. That is to be commended. So many people blindly follow party lines that is refreshing to see people that are not afraid to analyze their own position.
Forum members are great at thinking through issues, perhaps that comes from being involved in the complexities associated with the HR profession. When one of us is laboring under misperception, it does not take long for others to delve into the detail and find where the problem lies.
With politics, there is rarely a black and white line of demarkation. Mostly it is all shades of gray and finding your own place to stand in all that gray can be a real challenge. Perhaps that is why this particular election appears to be so close and so passionately contested by so many folk.
I greatly enjoy reading all of these thoughts - it helps clarify my own.
[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-25-04 AT 02:54PM (CST)[/font][br][br]YOU GO GIRL!! Note: This attagirl should have attached to jmcaa posting!
E Wart Someone just sent me this and I thought it was very appropriate for HR folks. (The only thing I questioned was recently I know I heard him say he was a lawyer too. But I have never heard which law school or in which state he passed the bar. Also, about his divorcing his wife, I understand it was during a time she was having a very bad time with depression. What a time to duck out. (May be he was the cause of it?):
Subject: John Kerry Job Application
JOB APPLICATION
NAME: John Kerry
RESIDENCE: 7 mansions, including one in Washington DC, worth multi-millions. I served in Vietnam (four months).
EXPERIENCE: Law Enforcement. In my career as a U.S. Senator, I've voted to cut every law enforcement, CIA and Defense bill. I ordered the city of Boston to remove a fire hydrant in front of my mansion, thereby endangering my neighbors in the event of fire. I served in Vietnam (four months).
MILITARY: I served in Vietnam (four months). I used three minor injuries to get an early discharge from the military and service in Vietnam (as documented by the attending doctor). I served in Vietnam (four months). I then returned to the U.S., joined Jane Fonda in protesting the war and insulted returning Vietnam vets, claiming they committed atrocities and were baby killers. I served in Vietnam (four months). I threw my medals, ribbons or something away in protest. Or did I? My book "Vietnam Veterans Against the War: The New Soldier", shows how I truly feel about the military. I served in Vietnam (four months).
COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my counterpart George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get admitted to Harvard nor graduate with an M.B.A
PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: After College and Vietnam, I ran for the U.S. Congress and have been there ever since. I have no real world experience except marrying very rich women and running their companies vicariously through them. I served in Vietnam (four months).
ACCOMPLISHMENTS: As a U.S. Senator I set the record for the most liberal voting record, exceeding even Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton. I have consistently failed to support our military and CIA by voting against their budgets, thus gutting our country's ability to defend itself. Although I voted for the Iraq War, now I am against it and refuse to admit that I voted for it. I voted for every liberal piece of legislation. I have no plan to help this country but I intend to raise taxes significantly if I am elected. I served in Vietnam (four months).
My wealth so far exceeds that of my counterpart, George Bush, that he will never catch up. I make little or no charitable contributions and have never agreed to pay any voluntary excess taxes in Massachusetts, despite family wealth in excess of $ 700 million. I served in Vietnam (four months).
I (we) own 28 manufacturing plants (Heinz) outside of the U.S. in places like Asia, Mexico and Europe. We can make more profit from the cheaper cost of labor in those Countries, although I blame George Bush for sending all of the other jobs out of Country. I served in Vietnam (four months).
Although I claim to be in favor of alternative energy sources, Ted Kennedy and I oppose windmills off Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard as it might spoil our view of the ocean as we cruise on our yachts. I served in Vietnam (four months).
RECORDS AND REFERENCES: None. However, I served in Vietnam (four months).
PERSONAL I practice my Catholic faith whenever cameras are present. I ride a Serotta Bike. I love to ski/snowboard. I call my Gulfstream V Jet the "Flying Squirrel". I call my $850,000 42-foot Hinckley twin diesel yacht the "Scarmouche".
I am fascinated by rap and hip-hop and feel it reflects our real culture.
I own several "Large" SUVs including one parked at my Nantucket summer mansion, though I am against large, polluting, inefficient vehicles and blame George Bush for our energy problems. I served in Vietnam (four months).
PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.
Comments
I just keep going back to the fact the I have a 19 year old son and a 22 year old daughter that tell me no one their age really understands what joining the Armed Forces can mean to them. Oh I'm sure they do now but it is sad to think about the kids that are dying in Iraq joined for free education and travel (as the commercials and recruiters say). You think I am too head strong, you should listen to my daughter (and she is pursuing a degree in HR Management.) Go figure!
I have heard many vets speak about the Vietnam war and the things they saw and were even ordered to do. These are some of the reasons so many vets came back with poor mental health. I agree with Judy in saying the John Kerry had the courage to stand up and talk about the things that happened. And Don - When you said your friend was lying there wondering why he was shot were you saying he didn't think we should be there?
I understand the senator from MA wished the Boston White Sox well today.
Speaking of Boston..... "HOW 'BOUT THEM RED SOX?".......comin' back from three games down.
The Card's and Astro's in game seven tonight. Only outcome (in my opinion) that could have been better was if the Cubbies were playing the Red Sox in the World Series.
Dutch2
Lord knows I would never push or shove my principles or values on you. But it is my values and beliefs that compeled me to jump in and ask you those questions. If the president had the ability OR felt he had an obligation to separate his values/principles, from what? If I took my values and put them on a shelf, what do I have left? My religious beliefs do not come into play when I am making management decisions, but my values and principles do and they guide me to make the best choices or determinations. They will be the same whether the person/people in question are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.
All people have values and principles of one sort or another. Not all people have a religious denomination. That separation you are looking for exists between the church/temple/synagogue and the government not between man and his soul.
Forum members are great at thinking through issues, perhaps that comes from being involved in the complexities associated with the HR profession. When one of us is laboring under misperception, it does not take long for others to delve into the detail and find where the problem lies.
With politics, there is rarely a black and white line of demarkation. Mostly it is all shades of gray and finding your own place to stand in all that gray can be a real challenge. Perhaps that is why this particular election appears to be so close and so passionately contested by so many folk.
I greatly enjoy reading all of these thoughts - it helps clarify my own.
[url]http://www.wketchup.com[/url]
Someone just sent me this and I thought it was very appropriate for HR folks. (The only thing I questioned was recently I know I heard him say he was a lawyer too. But I have never heard which law school or in which state he passed the bar. Also, about his divorcing his wife, I understand it was during a time she was having a very bad time with depression. What a time to duck out. (May be he was the cause of it?):
Subject: John Kerry Job Application
JOB APPLICATION
NAME: John Kerry
RESIDENCE: 7 mansions, including one in Washington DC, worth
multi-millions. I served in Vietnam (four months).
EXPERIENCE:
Law Enforcement. In my career as a U.S. Senator, I've voted to cut every
law enforcement, CIA and Defense bill. I ordered the city of Boston to
remove a fire hydrant in front of my mansion, thereby endangering my
neighbors in the event of fire. I served in Vietnam (four months).
MILITARY:
I served in Vietnam (four months). I used three minor injuries to get an
early discharge from the military and service in Vietnam (as documented by
the attending doctor). I served in Vietnam (four months). I then returned
to the U.S., joined Jane Fonda in protesting the war and insulted returning
Vietnam vets, claiming they committed atrocities and were baby killers. I
served in Vietnam (four months). I threw my medals, ribbons or something
away in protest. Or did I? My book "Vietnam Veterans Against the War:
The New Soldier", shows how I truly feel about the military. I served in
Vietnam (four months).
COLLEGE:
I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. Unlike my counterpart
George Bush, I have no higher education and did not get admitted to Harvard
nor graduate with an M.B.A
PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
After College and Vietnam, I ran for the U.S. Congress and have been there
ever since. I have no real world experience except marrying very rich women
and running their companies vicariously through them. I served in Vietnam
(four months).
ACCOMPLISHMENTS:
As a U.S. Senator I set the record for the most liberal voting record,
exceeding even Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton. I have consistently failed
to support our military and CIA by voting against their budgets, thus
gutting our country's ability to defend itself. Although I voted for the Iraq
War, now I am against it and refuse to admit that I voted for it. I voted for
every liberal piece of legislation. I have no plan to help this country but I
intend to raise taxes significantly if I am elected. I served in Vietnam (four
months).
My wealth so far exceeds that of my counterpart, George Bush, that he will
never catch up. I make little or no charitable contributions and have never
agreed to pay any voluntary excess taxes in Massachusetts, despite family
wealth in excess of $ 700 million. I served in Vietnam (four months).
I (we) own 28 manufacturing plants (Heinz) outside of the U.S. in places
like Asia, Mexico and Europe. We can make more profit from the cheaper cost
of labor in those Countries, although I blame George Bush for sending all of
the other jobs out of Country. I served in Vietnam (four months).
Although I claim to be in favor of alternative energy sources, Ted Kennedy and
I oppose windmills off Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard as it might spoil our
view of the ocean as we cruise on our yachts. I served in Vietnam (four
months).
RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
None. However, I served in Vietnam (four months).
PERSONAL I practice my Catholic faith whenever cameras are present. I ride a
Serotta Bike. I love to ski/snowboard. I call my Gulfstream V Jet the "Flying
Squirrel". I call my $850,000 42-foot Hinckley twin diesel yacht the "Scarmouche".
I am fascinated by rap and hip-hop and feel it reflects our real culture.
I own several "Large" SUVs including one parked at my Nantucket summer
mansion, though I am against large, polluting, inefficient vehicles and blame
George Bush for our energy problems. I served in Vietnam (four months).
PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004.