It Just Gets Uglier and Uglier
Parabeagle
3,085 Posts
I think I want to go on vacation to Bora Bora or maybe Pago Pago until after November 2nd.
First Kerry's a war hero. Then Bush is a war hero (he warmed a stool at the O-Club in the TXANG, didn't he?).
Then the Swiftboat Veterans for "Truth" start running their ads minimizing Kerry's actions in Vietnam.
Now there is revealed an apparent connection between the Swiftboat Veterans and the Bush campaign, a violation of Sec. 527 of the Internal Revenue Code.
Oh, well. I suppose it could have been worse. They could have just paid some yahoos to break into the Democratic National Committee offices. x;-)
First Kerry's a war hero. Then Bush is a war hero (he warmed a stool at the O-Club in the TXANG, didn't he?).
Then the Swiftboat Veterans for "Truth" start running their ads minimizing Kerry's actions in Vietnam.
Now there is revealed an apparent connection between the Swiftboat Veterans and the Bush campaign, a violation of Sec. 527 of the Internal Revenue Code.
Oh, well. I suppose it could have been worse. They could have just paid some yahoos to break into the Democratic National Committee offices. x;-)
Comments
>Now there is revealed an apparent connection
>between the Swiftboat Veterans and the Bush
>campaign, a violation of Sec. 527 of the
>Internal Revenue Code.
>
Just to set the record straight. This group of gentlemen approached GWB and tried to get him to allow them to appear with him and use their "documented" and first-hand knowledge of Kerry's military actions, and GWB refused to cooperate. I have a friend whose uncle contributed to the collection of stories for the book and served on a sister boat with Kerry. It has also been brought to the surface that 2 of the veterans that supposedly served under Kerry and were on the platform at the convention truely did. One for 2 days and the other for 5 days. So yes, it is getting Uglier and Uglier.
I'll bring the sunscreen Beag.
>maybe Pago Pago until after November 2nd.
>
Hey, Beag, I think you're already on vacation. I see you're on the beach! I can tell because I notice your head still in the sand.
I'd much rather be meeting in a motel room with a bunch of Swiftboat veterans than meeting in a motel room with Michael Moore, Sean Penn, James Carville, the sleazeball billionaire propping up the Democrat dirtywork and Barbra Streisand. It is laughable that Kerry has surrounded himself with cartoon characters in his election efforts.
There is absolutely no proof of any connection between the Bush campaign and the Swiftboat veterans for truth. Are these 47 men suddenly dishonorable liars because they seem to have alligned with the Republican side. So, now their service is tarnished and there is no truth in their message. I've seen and heard several of them interviewed at length and have read portions of the book. They seem quite honorable and truthful to me. But, I'm sure they are just reading remarks prepared for them by George Bush. All 47 of these 55-65 year old honorably discharged veterns certainly are liars. They probably all work for Haliburton and live on ranches in Texas as well. Another right-wing conspiracy.
Don't suppose any of us who were not there can ever be 100% convinced of the truth of what happened on the Swift Boats. I know which side I believe.
But as for me, for sure I know BY HIS OWN WORDS AND ACTIONS what Kerry has done since returning from Vietnam and I don't see any of those words or actions being of the nature to secure the future of me personally and American in general.
I do not like John Kerry, quite simply, because he is going to get me killed. I prefer to live.
What makes the "Truth" squad scary is that while many did serve with Kerry, none were on his boat and their version contradicts the military record. I also concede, that in such a situation, one's perception of reality is altered by postition, vantage point and other factors I can't bring myself to imagine. But there's no questioning that the guy that claims Kerry saved his life is alive and well...and there's no question that Kerry continued to serve after his time obligation was up. Hopefully, that debate will just come to an end.
If an IRS connection is discovered between the "Truth" guys and the Bush campaign...that would be quite sad. It does look fishy since the ads are almost identical to the ones' run against McCain during the primary four years ago. Really, who can question McCain's service to his country and sleep at night?
The bottom line is that we need to be educated voters...forget the TV ads...OR if you're watching them...look on the lower part of the screen and get the details on where the information comes from...and check it....sometimes what is literally true, is not really the TRUTH...one of my favorite tactics is to say that a candidate voted against a piece of legislation....which MAY be true....but what you don't know is that bill was up for a vote 7 times, 6 that didn't pass due to riders and other add-ons...
You just really have to pay attention and not let the media tell you which end is up!
You also brought up the name of John McCain. His duty to country is unquestionable as was James Stockdale's. You never hear either of these two talking or bragging about their service. My father, a decorated veteran of WWII, never talked about it. Our family didn't know anything about his wartime experiences until his funeral when the list of the campaigns he flew in were read off. My cousin was a helicopter pilot in the Vietnam war. When he came home he never talked about it, even when asked. I remember other Vietnam vets coming home and never talking about it. It seems as if the only ones who did talk about it were the ones who weren't even close to the action or who stayed stateside. If people want to talk about their service experiences that's fine, but it will raise a red flag with a question mark on it in MY mind.
Actually, I think there are about a dozen former generals and admirals that have thrown their support behind Kerry.
For me, even though the republicans are trying to obfuscate and confuse a real discussion of the issues with this smoke-and-mirrors show, the bottom line is that (a) Kerry served in Vietnam; (b) Bush served in the TX ANG Flying Club (when they could find him, that is).
No word from Kerry about his stand on the ads attacking Bush.
I would much rather listen to and follow the lead of Zel Miller than some retired Air Force officer. Miller knows Kerry intimately and is a fellow Democrat senator. Who gives a rats what some Air Force guy thinks about Kerry?
The bottom line to the claims of the swiftboat guys is this. Nobody is challenging their truth. The swiftboat guys have challenged Kerry to sue them for libel and slander if they are lying. But noooooo, all we hear from the Ketchup-Camp is demands that Bush denounce the ads and the book. Let's do that when Kerry denounces George Soros and Moore. At precisely 12:53 central time, I just listened to Bush denounce all the 527 ads and he said he had asked Kerry to join him in that.
Let's simply consider the fact that Kerry for all these years has been the most liberal person in either house of congress. If you like that, vote for him. If you don't, don't. I cannot consider voting for someone who would turn over the management of our country's protection to the United Nations.
>character, he will tell the American people one
>thing to get elected .....
and it will never bother him that he may have hoodwinked a few people to achieve his goal.
Except for the use of left instead of right, you could be talking about Bush. Only, I would add that not only did Bush hoodwinked a lot of people but too many of them died as a result.
But when it comes to character, I have my doubts about both - they both come from privileged upbringings, both went to good schools and Bush joined the ANG while Kerry went to Vietnam. That tells me something, as well.
The only thing I can really think that is positive out of this entire controversy is Bush's plea that all the 527s be banned. Special interests on both sides funding these ads are doing nothing but clouding the issue and distracting people, when both candidates need to spend their energies responding to the questions of the people.
Has there been any speculation about debates yet?
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. You'd think these yahoos would take a lesson from Chicago in '68.
As for the rest of my post, I don't intend to speak directly to your points, but rather make a general point of my own. I've found it amusing that the same people who supported Clinton's draft-dodging & lack of service are the ones denouncing Bush's service in the National Guard. Hmmmm.....
But, frankly, yes. I do think Bush's ANG service was less important than Kerry's.
In the 60s and 70s, the ANG in many states was jokingly referred to as a flying club where the privileged sat out the Vietnam war, the lucky ones were selected for pilot training and got to punch holes in the sky one weekend a month and everyone had a grand time playing "dead bug" in the officer's club bar after the drill weekend was over. We were even able to keep our hair long and wear short-hair wigs if we chose to, so long as they looked natural.
Kerry, on the other hand, went to Vietnam and did his time the hard way.
Gee, I didn't know Bob was there. x;-) Since we're relying so much on EYEWITNESS testimony rather than the record in this controversy, I'm assuming Bob would not be so foolish as to make such a statement without having personally observed the wounds and documented that no blood was shed.
... and I certainly never said we should leave our fate to the United Nations - we are responsible for our own safety. I did, however, say that we should defer a little more often to UN sovereignty and let them do what they have been chartered to do, rather than acting unilaterially. We have already discovered, much to our discomfort, that this is a good way to get the rest of the world PO'd at us.