9/11 Report - 2008

Don D

2008: Almost eighty seven million jobs lost in one day. Twenty Two Million Seven Hundred Thousand dead. Three whole cities gone, totally. The insurance industry bankrupted. There's no such thing now as COBRA or FMLA or annual ethics training or smoke breaks or leaving early next Friday. The survivors have no jobs and half of them can't see or walk. The last thing we need at this point is an HR Manager or Benefits Specialist.

2004: Right now all the media and the pundits seem focused on the so-called 9/11 Commission report and how what happened could have possibly happened. Imagine that in five years there's another commission report out and it focuses entirely on How and Who is/are responsible for allowing terrorists to penetrate our borders with Canada and Mexico. Let's also imagine that this commission in five years is meeting in response to a hundred thousand dead Americans. Or, hell, seven hundred thousand. But probably closer to twenty-three million.

And we're sitting around here talking about extending rights and privileges to those among us whom we know absolutely are illegals and slipped through our borders and because they don't look like my notion of a terrorist, I don't care what's in their suitcase. But what we're really thinking about is this weekend's soccer games and how many bottles of Gatorade will go in a cooler of ice.

I don't mind admitting that I am scared by the probability.

marc

I recently heard an opinion from a former CIA type that the next nuclear explosion would be in the US via a suitcase Nuke. When you consider the porous borders that Don references, this is entirely possible. Then add that weapons grade plutonium is available from a number of sources, this seems like an all too real possibility.

safety

Hey Marc, remember the old school drills where we got under the desk, sat cross legged and grabbed our heads to pull them down as far as we could in an attempt to kiss our A$$ goodbye?

marc

Yes, and our football coach, who also taught government classes, always added this thought "...and if you are really scared, when you are down there kissing your a## goodbye, just jump and try to disappear..."

Whatever

Earlier this week a pipebomb went off in the NYC subway system. The police are now looking atthe former police officer (he was forced to retire for psychological reasons) who discovered the bomb and was slightly injured when it went off. He is "suspected" of being the one who put it there in the first place. Timothy McVeigh was a homegrown terrorist. Since 9/11, some Americans have been arrested for alleged connections to Al-qaeda or the Taliban. The point is that not all terrorists are foreigners.
The 9/11 report made many recommendations. However, Congress will not vote on or probably consider anything (inspite of all the speeches for the home town folk) because this is an election and campaigning is considered more important (sorry, just had to vent).

safety

Whatever you make a good point and that is why I will always cherish the RIGHT to keep and bear arms. Yes, I am a card holder with the NRA and Ducks Unlimited and since the time my son was old enough to walk I began teaching him how to respect firearms and to use them properly. I take comfort in knowing that all members of my household can protect each other if the need presents itself!

Don't know about your state but in mine as long as one is not a convicted felon they can openly carry a firearm, just not concealed. God forbid if that ever changes and someone attempts to take away my freedon and right to protect my family with ANY form of gun control. Yea, I know, I am not a fan of assault guns but neither am I a fan of gun control.

This house is protected by Ruger firearms!

ray a

Safety, NY'ers openly carrying firearms is a very scary thought.

Whatever

Particularly if they decide to visit upstate NY.

ray a

Unfortunately, Whatever, you are correct. We've had about 3 murders this year here in beautiful Binghamton all ostensibly over drugs and involving guys from NYC.

rad

A pipe bomb or something like that went off down the street from my apartment this morning! I heard a big BOOM (loud enough to make me jump)and thought it was the cannon from the navy yard, thinking it was way louder than usual. An old age home lost some windows but no one was hurt. Walking home this afternoon I saw a group of Boston Police bomb squad guys. It made me uneasy. Everything is more visible now but we do have our own home grown yahoos too; not every terrorist comes with dark skin and an allah akbar.

Don D

The larger issue is that neither party, neither candidate, neither federal nor state government is doing one thing in a serious way to close these borders. I'm not particularly worried about a unibomber or McViegh or other nut who may emerge. We can't control or patrol that. But we can patrol our own borders. One of these two borders will prove to be our eventual demise.

ray a

We have been insulated for so long from terrorist activity that we are just starting to wake up to the reality of it. There will always be circumstances beyond our control, but we need to focus on what we can control.

Go back to 1776 and the genesis of the US. No one expected those upstart colonists to defeat the British. Britain was one of the most powerful countries militarily if not the most powerful. How could those ragtag rubes from disparate enclaves ever hope to get the upper hand over the highly trained and finely tuned British military? Simple, they changed the rules of war thus thoroughly confusing the British. The British, when on the battle field, had certain expectations of how to properly conduct a battle - it was all done in a very civilized manner. It was all orchestrated with very specific rules and set moves. The colonists broke every rule and made up their own rules taking the British by surprise.

Today, us civilized peoples conduct ourselves according to specific rules of conduct, even in war. We are shocked when we hear of "our guys" committing atrocities; our enemies do not share that same value. In a conventional, civilized war, we are unbeatable. Our enemies know that. So how do they get the upper hand? Simple, just as those American colonists did in 1776, they break the rules and make their own rules. We are now seeing the results.

Whatever

And the largest issue is "Why is America so deeply hated." I would not presume to have the answer. However, as far as I can tell, no one in government wants to know the answer to that question.

pork1

Bush has said it many times, they hate Freedom! There is an old movie "The Ugly American" which pertains to the drive of China toward Communism. That movie needs to be brought back and become mandatory viewing for everyone of us. Each congressman/woman should be required to write a 500 word essay in critic of the film. We consume the rest of the world and expect them to give it to us on a silver platter. We don't even live off of our own fat, we want more and more and cheaper and cheaper. We are horrified to pay $2.00 a gallon for gas, and "bitch" because someone doesn't get it down. Crack the whip on the Saudis make them get their price down, is our cry. Back in 1983 the Germans were paying $2.50 cents a liter for gas whole we paid 62 cents for the same gallon located in our pumps in their country. We are just the "Ugly Americans" living the good life and wanting bigger and faster cars and three at that. How about a Hummer or SUV, who cares we just waqnt it. Things will get better, ONLY WHEN WE START TO LIVE MORE QUITELY AND LESS FLAMBOUNTLY. Let's see why not declare a "National Emergency and Marshall Law", stop the world, for a moment, re-arrange things, and next year after the national threat is over, we will get back to the campaign and the election of a President and a bunch of new congressional faces who wish to do something.

Have a great Friday and a Blessed week-end!

BBQ Pork is on the grill, slow cooking to just the right temp.

PORK

Parabeagle

xclap

Whatever

ditto

rad

I asked a friend of mine from the Czeck Republic who lived under communist rule that same question a few days ago. He said that most Europeans feel that America acts before thinking through the problem and that we only help when there is a financial interest. He also said that while most do not like our government, they do love us as people, even if they do not understand what motivates us.

Crout

Just yesterday the Coast Guard stopped a ship from Turkey from docking in Philadelphia, turned it around and escorted it back up Delaware Bay where it anchored and is currently, quietly being inspected.

ScorpioHR

>Don, I lost my 29 year old nephew when the Twin
>Towers went down. He was my sister's only son
>and I cannot begin to tell you how awful it was
>for my family-He was a bright, ambitious young
>man with his whole life in front of him, or so
>we thought.
>
>I tend to stay away from anything to do with
>9/11-But,I went to the thread to see what you had posted. I
>think it is really sad that people forget there
>are those of us who lost loved ones, for us,
>9/11 is not just a date or a reason for debate,
>it is a heartbreak. So, thank you for that
>post- I travel quite a bit to Europe, every 3 months or so and it has never been the same for me getting on a plane. Btw, there is an illegal person living right here in my condo development-A few of us have notified the INS, it is 3 months and guess what? he is still here :-( Sad, very sad.

Don D

Whatever: I didn't intentionally try to misread your last post and if I have this wrong, my apology. But, is this the same logic so many people overseas seem to use; that it is our own fault because of who we are and the things we do and our system of capitalism and the majority of us who are spiritual; therefore Americans or a particular segment of them are totally responsible for what happened to us? That's the freightening logic of Barbra Streisand, Michael Moore and Linda Ronstadt. But again, I'm probably misreading your post.

Whatever

The issue is not that we are a spiritual, capitalistic nation. The problem arises when we try to export it to other nations without regard for their cultures. Our country appears to have an interest in other countries only when money is involved. Think of all the dictators the American government has put into power and/or supported. Many people in the middle East strongly believe that Saddam was a terrible dictator. However, they, also, believe that the leaders of Jordan and Saudi Arabia are dictators. But they have American support. The image conveyed by our government is terrible. The American people may be respected, but our government is not.

Don D

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-26-04 AT 01:37PM (CST)[/font][br][br]I've read your post and don't disagree with it. Maybe it will occur to me what that has to do with people whistling across our border with Canada or Mexico with a suitcase full of pipe bombs.

In the theory of One World Order that so many Democrats ascribe to, it is befitting that the strongest powers cut inroads and gain leverage wherever and whenever they can. So it would seem you would actually support our decades old practice of influencing activities where we can benefit. If we were to do the converse of that, which is to say, nothing, what would be the outcome of that?

Of course the core belief of the 'One World Orderists' is that all will be benevolent and calm with the world and there will be a worldwide melting pot, overseen by a panel of scholarly, fair men and women. And all will be equalized, wealth shared, no over achievers allowed, no superpower, what's mine is yours, what's yours is mine. There will be love and peace aplenty and Tiny Tim will play the ukelele and dance lightheartedly among the flower petals. And America will be a distant, vague memory.

But, back to the borders. If people at the top in this country do not do something about plugging our borders and soon, we are all, regardless of politics or faith or lack of either, in for quite trying times. It's not all about picking lettuce and gutting chickens. A guy in a 3 piece suit can carry 175 pounds of bombs rather easily if he's in good shape. And he may look just like me or you. Or Ray. Or Cofey Anan. Or Milton Berle.

Whatever

>
> And >he may look just like me or you. Or Ray. Or >Cofey Anan. Or Milton Berle.

Maybe I look like Milton Berle in Drag.

Back to the serious stuff. I always thought we were notthat far apart. My issue is with your emphasize on the borders. The border is not just land, but also sea. And, while I realize the borders may be porous, I believe that we may be able to slow the flow, but we can't entirely stop it. which means that if someone really wants to get in, they will find a way. By the same token, while I believe the government must deal with the root of the problem, there will always be fanatic terrorists out there. Which means that though I like to think I'm an optimist, I really sound like a pessimist.

Don D

It's tough to swim ashore and we actually have one helluva Coast Guard patrolling every inch of water border. E.G., the freighter that just the other day was stopped and escorted up toward Maryland somewhere for inspection. The waterfront and entry-airspace are seriously patrolled. The physical boundaries with other countries are absolutely not. The notion that if you want to get in, you will, is certainly no excuse. No more than we should quit worrying about any other form of behavior because the vigilant will find a way to misbehave.

I venture a guess that we will not hear ONE WORD at either convention about the lack of border security. Since I won't be listening, someone tell me if you do.

ScorpioHR

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-23-04 AT 07:29PM (CST)[/font][br][br][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-23-04 AT 05:29 PM (CST)[/font]

"Right now all the media and the pundits seem focused on the so-called 9/11 Commission report and how what happened could have possibly happened"

I am not sure if this post is acceptable on the forum or not, I am new here. However, Don's post got me thinking and I wanted to share something with all of you-If I am out of line, I guess I will be told by the forum :-S

As I mentioned in my previous post, I travel a great deal to Europe, specifically Germany. My daughter and first and so far only, grandbaby live there-Picture this...I went to see my daughter 2 years ago, as I landed in Hamburg airport I noticed there was an unusually large amount of security, I cleared customs and went to collect my baggae. I exited the airport and EVERYWHERE I looked there were people waving little American flags. As I walked further I saw men in uniforms, New York fireman uniforms. That was easy for me to spot as I grew up and lived in New York most of my life. Man, was I puzzled. I finally found my daughter in the crush and I asked her what was going on. She was crying and trying to tell me everything at once, how happy she was to see me and how proud she was to be an American. Apparently, quite a few American firemen had been invited to Germany, the german's were heartsick at what had happened and they wanted to bring OUR fireman there, to honor them. I traveled by train to the harbor where my daughter and I would take a ferry into the North Sea to arrive at her home. We changed trains twice-All along the route we took you could look out the window and see people, standing by the tracks waving American flags and calling out to the firemen traveling on that train-

Over the next two weeks I was honored to go to many dinners with those fireman ( I speak English and German and was able to translate) I sat as man after man went up and told a room full of people about the horrors they saw. Many, almost all of them had funeral cards, thick as a deck of playing cards, they would hold those cards up and talk about the friends, fellow fireman they had lost. The germans cried, they hugged them, they opened their homes to them. The europeans have their opinions, we have ours, but, when push came to shove I saw firsthand the support for America that many of them have. And like my child, I was proud to be an American-Sad to have lost my loved one, sad that it took so many lives, but, proud to be an American.

I am sorry this post got so long, but, as I stated previously, its not just a date -9/11, it is not just a debate for politicians or others to point the finger and place blame- Its not about reports- It is about real people, real threats and real tears. And finally, God Bless America, screw anyone who thinks differently! JMHO

ray a

Scorpio, your post is entirely appropriate on this forum. And shows that there are decent, reasonable people elsewhere that can share pain and act just plain human. BTW, you look way too young to be a grandmother.

marc

I echo Ray's comments. Your post reminds me that our current picture of the world is forever colored by the blood of innocent patriots. All to frequently our way of life, our freedom is purchased with the blood of our citizens. Until 9/11 we thought ourselves protected by the oceans, safe with distance from those who hate what we stand for, we can no longer walk our daily paths unaware that people a half a world away will count on our apathy and use it against us to wrest further payment for freedom.

Scorpio, your story is both heart-wrenching and heart warming. Heart wrenching because you have shared the story of your family's payment and heartwarming because you also showed us a picture of citizens of our planet who share our horror and disagree with the tactics of terror, whomever suffers the results; and showed us pictures of people who appreciate heros, whatever our nationality.

Thanks for the post, it is important.

deniseE

Borders are a problem...illegal's are a problem...but there is one issue that we're not talking a whole lot about, because it's too scary.

We have a wealth of US military trained individuals that have developed a deep hatred for the American system. Think Oklahoma City. That was a terrorist act. McVeigh didn't come from overseas anywhere. We grew him right here at home.

One of the things that any administration will have to deal with (former military guys chime in) is the way discharged military are handled. They have a wealth of training and knowledge and sometimes, scary psychological profiles. Many develop militias and live in compounds in the middle of nowhere and pretty much bother no one. But what happens when they're not so quiet anymore?

Yes, we're hated around the world for one reason or another, but I'm more afraid of the threats in our own backyard.