Show of hands, please

rad

I am interested in your opinions on this: a co-worker insists that in order to be effective in HR, one must first have supervisory experience because it is impossible to counsel supervisors on such things as terminations, employee relations, etc, without having been in that position yourself.

I do not agree; the analogy I made was that a conductor does not have to know how to play every instrument in an orchestra in order to be an effective conductor.

What do you think?

ray a

Ah, but a good conductor usually is proficient on at least one instrument, so he understands the instrumentalists perspective. I came out of manufacturing supervision/management and I believe it has helped me greatly in my dealings with supervision. They know they can't pull the wool over my eyes because I have been there in the trenches. That said, I'm not sure it is a prerequisite, street smarts and the ability to communicate are vital, too.

sonny

Technically I can agree with you, but I bet the conductor is MORE effective if he plays an instrument or 2. Given 2 otherwise equally qualified candidates I would always choose the one with the supervisory experience.

Whatever

The people in HR are a mixed bag..2 have managerial experience, one was previously a worker in the factory and two were giving on the job training (though both had taken courses at a local college). What makes a good HR person depends on a lot factors-the ability to consistently try to stay on top of legal changes, the ability to care for people, experience etc. If we were a one person department, however, managerial experince would get a preference.

ritaanz

I think it depends on the company and its "clientele". Having supervisory experience under your belt certainly can't hurt. Knowing when and how to reprimand an employee and doing it tactfully, is very important.

In the HR arena, it is very easy to tell a supervisor that he/she has to sit an employee down and issue a written warning. Not having the experience of a face to face may result in throwing out a few suggestions and leave the supervisor still out in the cold.

On the other hand, many HR people have accepted the role of dealing with personnel and the day to day issues that come up. This enables them to think through a situation and offer advise that will assist the supervisor with his dilemma. If it is not a work issue, i.e. poor work performance, there are times I have assumed the supervisor's role in disciplinaring an employee. I believe that my supervisory exposure helped me to handle these situations in a logical manner.

mwild31

Hi Rad - I'm with you on this one. When I went into HR it was due to knowing a lot about benefits & having a keen interest in employment law and applying business concepts to HR. I've been doing it a long time - geez, like 9 or 10 years, and it's only with my current job that I actually became a supervisor. I'm very successful in my job & in my small company 'niche' and I think what makes that work is an understanding of business & how the employment laws don't have drive the owners crazy (just me x;-)). As to how to guide others, I think it takes a certain type of profile, knowledge of the inner workings of a company & skill at communication (although, God knows I'm not perfect). I don't think supervision is a mystery, nor do I think managing people is a mystery. Mainly, I think a willingness to treat others the way you would want to be treated (cliche, I know) & being willing to take ownership of the decisions that are made in HR for the benefit of people and business are the keys.

rad

Thanks everyone. I knew I could count on my fellow forumers for great input.

Paul in Cannon Beach

I have to agree with those above who have stated the helpfulness of actual supervisor experience.

Its like raising kids. Would you take advice from a psychologist or expert who has never actually raised any?

In the very least, being a supervisor will give you humility and the clear realization that not all problems have easy answers. Working with people is messy and sometimes that reality is not adequately portrayed in a management book.

When I supervised my own crew, I made some knucklehead moves along the way. I try to remember that when I am working with supervisors now.

On the other hand, an HR person can probably gain the equivalent experience over time if he or she is observant.

Interesting question!

mwild31

Interesting point Paul - so in keeping with the logic, Catholics shouldn't ask advice from their priests on marriage, sex or raising children - seeing how they don't have any experience in those areas? x;-)

Parabeagle

Sort of figured that analogy would hit the forum. Just didn't figure it would be you, Mwild - I was waiting for Don D. x;-)

However, seriously now, I think those who have supervisory experience -- or any line management or operational experience outside of HR -- are bound to make better HR practitioners because of a broader understanding of the business. Now I realize that's a generalization and I'm going to take some hits for it, so let me make it all better by saying that it's just my opinion.

mwild31

Sorry - I couldn't resist - some have said in the past that my posts somewhat resemble Don D's - so there you go. Honestly, with this question, I really don't think there's a 'right way' - but I do enjoy the conversation. x:-)

Parabeagle

>Sorry - I couldn't resist - some have said in
>the past that my posts somewhat resemble Don D's
>- so there you go.

Not really. You're a better speller.

mwild31

In re-reading my post - by no means do I even presume to be as good as Don - just sometimes my sentiment faintly echo's his - that's all I meant to say.

Sunny

I agree with you - I have 20+ years of experience in HR. When I started, I had no supervisory background. I gained that along the way, along with a greater understanding of people and how to earn their respect and trust. Of course, I started as an Assistant and worked my way up so in the beginning I did not have to have my current, painfully gained, knowledge. I was fortunate enough to have bosses who were teachers and mentors.

marc

Just to add a couple of cents worth -

Does practice make perfect? No. Perfect practice makes perfect. I generally agree that the broader a persons experience and knowledge, the more tools she or he has to bring to any situation. But if you have been supervising staff incorrectly, then you bring incorrect information and practice to the party. HR people have information and experience in the laws and regulations that others do not have, which means they can advise on those matters with little or no experience supervising. Now when it comes to the people aspect of running the show, then experience is very helpful. Knowing how to handle difficult, obstructionistic EEs is not something one learns easily from a textbook. Motivating, selling and generally having your ideas and suggestions implemented is also difficult to learn from a book. You try things out, learn from your mistakes, and come back and do it again.

mwild, good point about the priests.

Don D

Let's try an Air Force analogy: Who would you choose to do your flight school training? A pilot with 2600 flight hours or a Lieutenant with five years in the computer room? Another thing I always had a problem with...an elementary school principal who had either never been married or never had children. I reckon a baldheaded barber is OK, but I opt for the HR practitioner who has a bit of supervisory experience. (Sorry I'm late gettin' here Beagle. I've been injecting turkeys).

Whatever

Would you be concerned about vegan butchers? x;-)

Don D

Only if they licked their fingers.

moneyman

Good thoughts Don, I had a junior high teacher who taught "learning is doing". He felt that there is just so much that you can teach by telling someone something and found more value in having someone do something. I think that this applies here. If you want a HR person to instruct your managers how to handle their people, then perhaps they should have had some hands on experience already handling people.

p.s. We did some great things in his class. Instead of talking about early settlers and their hardships, one class built a log cabin. My class' subject was about mountain men and their indian allies, so we slept in a teepee, loaded and fired musket guns, shot bow and arrow, started fires by flint, cooked venison over a fire, worked leather hides and had a whole lot of fun over one weekend.

mjindra

Once again, I'm late to respond, BUT I have to say my supervisory experience has been a plus as far as dealing with the employees and terminations.

If I hadn't been a supervisor in a previous life, I would be hardpressed to make suggestions to the supervisors about dealing with employee issues.

Dutch2

I have to agree with the majority of the previous posts. Having had supervisory experience is a BIG plus in working in this area. It is a tremendous help to have walked a few miles in their shoes to better be able to understand all sides of the opportunities that abound. Some of the biggest arguments that I have had have been with the "much learned and little/or no actual supervisory experience" supervisors or senior mamagement types.
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
Dutch2