Extreme stress "at this moment"
KP68
164 Posts
Not sure if this should be posted under ADA or FMLA, but I'll start here.
Employee presented us with a letter from a counseling center stating that he "has depressive and panic symptoms related to a current personal situations". It goes on to read, "because of the extreme stress is his facing at this moment...he should be excused for the past five days....", and that "he is not able to do the activities he used to do before, and I would like you to discuss w/him alternatives that may help him regarding his job during this time."
It does not say he cannot work, and it refers, as you can see, to a "current" personal situation causing this.
Where would you start with this??
Employee presented us with a letter from a counseling center stating that he "has depressive and panic symptoms related to a current personal situations". It goes on to read, "because of the extreme stress is his facing at this moment...he should be excused for the past five days....", and that "he is not able to do the activities he used to do before, and I would like you to discuss w/him alternatives that may help him regarding his job during this time."
It does not say he cannot work, and it refers, as you can see, to a "current" personal situation causing this.
Where would you start with this??
Comments
What we have done, in the past, is provide the physician with the employees position description so it can be determined if he is able to do the "activities" he used to do before, or what limitations should be set forth and for what length of time.
The word "activities" as used in the letter from the counselor seems a little off as does "alternatives to help him regarding his job during this time".
I recommend checking the validity of the letter from the counseling center since it says "excuse for the PAST five days". Physicians usually do not BACK DATE return to work notices. And while you are checking on that, maybe you can fax his position description.....
Just a thought.
The past five days the counselor is referring to have not been entirely consecutive, either. On two occasions he was here a couple hours, then left. So would this qualify for the MORE THAN three-calendar day rule under FMLA if there were a couple days he came in briefly? I know it's supposed to be more than three consecutive calendar days, but is this splitting hairs, so to speak? And yes, we are concerned about this being addressed after-the-fact as well.
Do I have to honor all of this time as FMLA? If I don't, when can/should I make FMLA effective in this situation?
Two reasons: (1) No medical practitioner, including a licensed marriage and family therapist or a psychologist would write you that note. (2) the wording itself reveals that it was written by an unlicensed counselor aide, trainee or clinician without proper credentials or education.
I have found that many state and local counseling centers, particularly pro-rata-pay facilities, utilize non-graduates, people in pursuit of a degree, former program completers and others. Most of them are not recognized as having any particular level of expertise and certainly no credentialing.
In any event, I would not honor the 'letter'. If you would like, you can give the individual the proper FMLA paperwork and tell him/her that it requires the attention of a medical practitioner, not a group home counselor or treatment center assessment personnel.
Note: The preceeding is my personal opinion and has no value beyond that. Although it may be 'sorta offensive' or 'indeed offensive' to someone out there, it is offered without regard to that possibility. Should you find yourself alarmed by my post, you may privately mail me to protest or you may alert the principal's office. x:-)
There is a recent update - one of his supervisors just told me he is a no show today, and when he called the employee at home, he said he wouldn't be in until Monday (coincidence that his direct manager is out of town until then???)
So - plan of action is send out the DOL's CHP form, and I'm also toying with the idea of taking the "reasonable accommodation" route by sending this counselor a job description to clarify what accommodations are recommended, if any.
Would you do the same in this scenario?
Brad Forrister
Director of Publishing
M. Lee Smith Publishers
From the FMLA regulation 29CFR825.118
"A health care provider includes....Nurse practitioners, nurse-midwives and clinical social workers who are authorized to practice under State law and who are performing within the scope of their practice as defined under State law."
If they can diagnose the psychiatric condition and/or treat it, then for your purposes the LCSW's "sign-off" would be sufficient if all the other requirements to establish a "serious heatlh condition" are met.
Note: The preceeding is my personal opinion and has no value beyond that. Although it may be 'sorta offensive' or 'indeed offensive' to someone out there, it is offered without regard to that possibility. Should you find yourself alarmed by my post, you may privately mail me to protest or you may alert the principal's office. x:-)
All of the info I found for Ilinois is about as clear as mud.
Would anyone out there have any background on this?
Try this web page for phone #'s and information.
This seems to have gone on a while. I agree with Don, that it is poorly written. At this point maybe it would be easier to just to do as Don and sw suggest above?
Dept. Of Professional Regulation
320 West Washington Street, 3rd Floor
Springfield, IL 62786
217-785-0800
I posted earlier, but it seems to have gotten lost in cyber space. This information is more specific
Do I have to honor all of this time as FMLA? If I don't, when can/should I make FMLA effective in this situation? This is in response to an earlier comment made about not 'retroactively' designating the time as FML.
Also, I think in this case, IF you decide to accept the LCSW's statement as meeting the requirements under FMLA as a health care provider (based upon your state's clicnial social work regulations), you should and would consider the FMLA to be from the first day of leave. I'm assuming everyone acted timely. You don't explain what you mean that you recieved notice on March 17. When did the emplyee notify the supervisor that leave was needed?
While the employee has 15 days to get the verfication in from the health care provider, that is a minimal time set by the law. Your policy or practice can provide for more time.
It would be best to start the FMLA from the first day of leave, IF you are accepting the LCSW's certification, since you KNOW those days are used now. You would either put those days on the front end, from March 5 through March 24 or on the back end of the leave as counting toward the 12 weeks. Since your appears not to have delayed in meeting its requirements under FMLA and under the "Ragsdale v. Wolverine" decision an employee is not legally entitled to more than 12 weeks FMLA in a "benefit year" even if the employer fails to timely notify the employee that it will be counted as FMLA, you should just run the FMLA from March 5 and advise the employee as such along with the expiry date of the FMLA leave and what the employee needs to do at that point.
I placed a call w/the state two days ago to find out about the LCSW signing off on the CHP, but oddly enough, nobody has returned my call.
Note: The preceeding is my personal opinion and has no value beyond that. Although it may be 'sorta offensive' or 'indeed offensive' to someone out there, it is offered without regard to that possibility. Should you find yourself alarmed by my post, you may privately mail me to protest or you may alert the principal's office. x:-)