Porn Downloads on Computer

Kymm

Here's the situation...We have an employee who has been with us a year or so - when he was hired he offered to bring in his home computer (laptop) and use it for work as well. s we were "short" on computers at the time, we said "ok".... Our MIS dept. hooked him up and configured the computer for the programs he would need. We have now discovered that he has over 7000 downloads of porno pictures on it! However, we cannot see where he did any of that since his date of hire. Where should we go with this? (We were "investigating" another matter in the same office, when this discovery was made by our MIS guy.) Being that this laptop IS also his personal computer, can we do anything? And being that we cannot see where he downloaded anything since he became our employee..... Or, by his agreeing to use his laptop for business, can we require that our internet policy be applied to him as well? (and thus face disciplinary action for having these pictures on his computer)...
I'm thinking we need to advise him what we have found and that we will furnish him with a company laptop and he is to follow company policy in respect to that - but not sure if we can do anything else at this point... thoughts?

Gillian3

My opinion is to apply your IT policies - inform him that they will apply on company time. I think that you are stuck with the personal stuff since it wasn't done on company time. Also, tell him to take his laptop home and give him a company computer.

Crout

I agree with G, but would also find out what kind of porn. If it's child porn you have to report him to the police.

dchr9203

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-08-05 AT 12:17PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Ditto on all above. One other twist to add is that porn addicts are just that; addicts. They in general are not discerning about when where and how they download or access and it progressively gets worse. If you issue company owned property, including access to websites etc through your service provider, you can bet he'll use it to access so I would recommend being specifically clear that it won't be tolerated and termination will be immediate. Even if he uses his personal computer at work, he's still using your service provider, so technically, your policies apply.

Balloonman1

Was it good porn?

marc

In the interest of protecting your EEs from having to view all of this material, I will volunteer to investigate the pictures./:)

WT

I have had the unpleasant experience of dealing with this issue before but not with the peculiar twist that you have encountered. Here you have a unique problem due to the inter mix of private property and company use. The employee doubtless has an enhanced expectation of privacy due to using his personal computer rather than a company computer at work. However, he also has a diminished expectation of privacy compared to what he has enjoyed in the privacy of his home. However, the porn speaks very strongly to the type of person you have hired. I would not dance around this. If kiddie porn, call the local office of the FBI. Has the thought occurred to you that he generously offered to use his computer at work to be close to his porn. If the addiction has progressed far enough, he does not own the porn, the porn owns him. Aside from giving him a company computer, sending his computer home, and telling him the policy, I would tell him that the company is not interested in employing a person addicted to porn. If he cannot stop, he will do it at work sooner or later and you will have to deal with it. If fired for porn use at work, it will be on his record. It is bad for the company image and if he is firmly wedded to such things, he might better seek employment elsewhere and save both parties a lot of pain and misery. I would tell him that in a very plain way. Good luck.

dusty moshier

I'm from Kansas that is an employment at will state, so that might make some difference in your situation. What jumped out at me was that he would bring it to the office and hook it up to the system with knowledge that someone might review what is on it. His "judgement" is suspect at a minimum. I hope he is not in a position where good judgement is a part of his job description. I suppose it is "possible" that it was on the laptop when he bought from his buddy, but not likely. He should be given an opportunity to explain. I also assume that he had no expectation of privacy once he hooked up to the system.
I agree with the child porn comment.
The laptop has to go.
I'd think seriously about letting him go as well, not because of what he might have been looking at, but because it was a really stupid thing for him to do. Unfortunately, over the years I have come to the conclusion that bad or stupid employees do not get better.
His actions potentially placed not only the company, but other employees at risk of issues being raised at some pt.
The $1000 you saved by letting him use his own laptop was not worth it. Not only can stuff on his personal laptop slow down the system, I assume you have a backup system that is saving everything on his laptop on a daily basis.
I'm apparently in the minority, but I'd seriously look at letting him go because he did such a stupid thing and caused you extra work.

jmcaa

If he has been with you "a year or so" and you "cannot see where he did any of that
since his date of hire" and if he has been a good employee during that time, I would let him know that the company will be providing him with a new laptop computer from here on, that the company's internet usage policy will apply and that any personal files, etc. are not to be used or kept on this company computer.

I would let him know that while investigating another unrelated incident that inappropriate material was found on his personal computer.....does he have any personal problems that he feels would interfere with his ability to perform his job?......if not, then personal computer has to stay at home this point forward.

If he has been a good employee for this long, then give him the benefit of the doubt, a new computer, and a warning. Keep periodic checks to make sure he stays in compliance with policy.

System

Think about this: what if he or someone else brought porn pictures to work, of which were obtained outside of work, but were stashed in his/her desk? Mgmt discovers the pictures - what is your response? My guess is you don't allow that, is against your policy, and would be a terminable offense. What's the difference here? He brought obscene images to work, albeit on his own laptop, but nonetheless has brought porn into the workplace. Additionally, as other have pointed out, he probably is viewing the images while at work. Have you not lost confidence in this individual for not only poor judgement, but also for violating your expectation of professional behavior? If you have a policy regarding a prohibition of obscene material, this is a no-brainer to me - allow him to resign to avoid embarassment or fire him.

SMace

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-10-05 AT 05:21PM (CST)[/font][br][br]What if? So you are going to fire him because of what might happen in the fuure? He's PROBABLY viewing them? You don't know that. What I'm reading is he did not break policy. Have a talk and move on.

System

You missed the point completely. The fact that he brought them in to work on his PC is no different than bringing porn pictures to work and stashing them in his desk. If there is any sort of anti-obscenity policy in place, or an anti-harassment policy that relates to "hostile environment" prohibitions (i.e. graphic sexual images, etc), then he has violated policy and should be terminated. To do otherwise would allow anyone else to bring in their own PC's and claim the same lame excuse that they were either unaware of the images or acquire and view them only on their personal time. What a crock. The poor judgement issue alone should be enough to have him seek alternative workplaces to feed his porn habit. The "have a talk and move on" strategy you promote turns a blind eye and weakens any attempt to have a strong prohibition on ANY type of obscene material in the workplace. But hey, if the slap-on-the-wrist response is what you promote in your workplace, who am I to tell you how to promote professional behavior and sound judgment among your employees?

SMace

A little huffy this morning, are we? I was just giving my opinion.

I do have to ask how a disciplinary meeting is turning a blind eye to the issue? And how is that it would weaken the prohibition of obscene material?

It is easy to see that you have strong personal beliefs about this subject. Be careful, rational thinking is sometimes clouded by that.

I'll go back to my corner.

C Wilson

If there has been no porn downloaded since his date of hire it is possible that someone other than the employee may have downloaded the porn? Does he have teenagers or adults in his home who may have downloaded this onto his computer without his knowledge. It could happen! It happend to a friend of mine.

Gillian3

I agree with Smace. I think that most employers would view someone bringing pornographic material and stashing it in a desk as bad conduct, but would not terminate on the first offense - probably the second, especially if no one, other than the stasher, had viewed the material.

Rockie

I'd immediately get him a company laptop and advise him as to what was found on his computer.
His response will tell you a lot about what his intentions are.

I'd also advise him of the company policy on pornographic materials at work. I'd tend to be suspect of someone who would bring in a personal laptop to a job site knowing this stuff was on it, but hey that's just me.

System

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-12-05 AT 01:27PM (CST)[/font][br][br]So someone brings pornographic material to work, and you decide that the fact that someone is stupid enough, let alone somewhat deranged, to CHOOSE to bring such completely inappropriate and obscene material to work, and you respond by saying, "don't let this happen again,(wink, nod)"? You are in essence saying this individual is someone you want to keep as your employee and you see no serious red flags here, at least not serious enough to let him go? I find that incredible. You obviously don't have very high expectations when it comes to your employees. And you certainly don't subscribe to the "where there's smoke there's fire" philosophy. So what level of lapse of judgement does it take to get someone fired at your (and Smace)place of employment??

Gillian3

Jeez, maybe we should have just joked about it like Balloonman and Mark. Nowhere in my post, nor Smace's, at least that I can see, does it say anything about winking and nodding.

System

no, but you say someone bringing porn to work is "bad conduct" not rising to the level of a terminable offense. I disgree. To me, that speaks volumes about someones character, judgement, and employability.

Crout

What about this scenario: A man brings pornographic pictures in his briefcase to work...let's say he enjoys looking at them with his wife...the pictures are discovered when his administrative assistant (a women) moves the briefcase without his knowledge and the contents accidentally spill out. The man is a long-time employee with a spotless record. Would you fire that guy? I could see as much as a suspension, but a termination? No way.

System

Crout,
your scenario is quite a bit different from the original post, where the employee was there for little more than a year. Someone with long service and a spotless record would, in my opinion, warrant some leniency. But a one year employee with over 7000 downloaded images on a personal laptop that he requested to use at work - are you really inclined to give this guy a break too? If so, for what reason? A long one year of service and an unblemished record?

Crout

Oh yes, I agree....this is nothing like the original post. I just wanted your opinion on it. You seem to have strong convictions about this issue, and I threw out that scenario to gauge your level of tolerance. It's a tough call because as you said 7000 is quite a big number. I can't you I wouldn't recommend termination, but I would certainly invest a good deal of time investigating the circumstances before making a judgement. However, if ANY of it turned out to be kiddie-porn I'd immediately terminate without hesitation and notify the cops.

Parabeagle

"no, but you say someone bringing porn to work is "bad conduct" not rising to the level of a terminable offense. I disgree. To me, that speaks volumes about someones character, judgement, and employability."

I agree that it doesn't necessarily reflect favorably on an individual's character, but in the limited context of the post, I must agree with Gillian and Smace. I would view this as bad conduct and worthy of discipline, but I would be very concerned about the fact that the IT people can't trace any of the downloads to a period of time occurring AFTER he was employed by the company. Smace's 'talking to' and stern warning about what would happen if such instances occurred again are - again, within the context outlined in the post - reasonable.

SMace

You are making very broad assumptions in your post, that don't even warrant a comment from me. "You obviously this and certainly that..."


As far as the poster knows, the guy did not download the porn on company time and they are not even sure it is his. It is likely his, but I don't base my decisions on likely if I don't have to. Maybe I should clarify what I meant by "have a talk with him." The talk would consist of "your ass will be fired if anything like this pops up at anytime."

I'm trying to remain professional in this discussion. Your rhetorical, self-serving questions are about to end that, however.

Open1

Is everyone certain that the guy purchased the laptop brand new? I know someone who bought a used computer and lo and behold when he got it home it was filled with porn. He had to wipe clean the entire hard drive and start from scratch.

Whatever you decide, please investigate first!

J9JC

Mace, I see those other posts as attacks, and you should not have to endure them!

I think the point is that the IT dept is not able to conclusively determine when this was done or even if he is accessing these files. In my mind this is the company's fault for not knowing what was on the computer when he started working, and that is a fault of the company being "short". That taken into account, admit the company responsibility form not being able to make conclusive calls and go forward.

I don't know about other states but here in CA if we fired for stuff we "suspected" happen, we would easily lose in the battle.

I agree with you that the stern warning, such as , "We are providing you a new company pc and it will be monitored for a period of 6 months, and ANY incident of porn will result in immediate termination." I assume that a similar thing was done for the person who they were originally investigating.

Also agree that if it is child porn that trumps all.

Crout

I don't understand your logic. You're saying it was the company's fault to begin with, which is the justification to give the employee the benefit of the doubt....but if there's any kiddie-porn then the responsibility suddenly shifts back from the company to the employee? Either the employee is responsible for his laptop or he is not. The content of the laptop should have nothing to do with that issue.

System

So your argument is that because I.T. couldn't verify its origin,and the company didn't check it out, the company bears responsibility for the presence of porn on the personal laptop? But the presence of kiddie porn "trumps all" and now the employee must be held responsible? This is twisted logic. How does the fact that there is kiddie porn versus regular porn make a difference in who is ulimately responsible for brining it into the workplace?

J9JC

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-20-05 AT 01:05PM (CST)[/font][br][br]I think I was not clear, Child Porn is a criminal offense and should be reported to the police, and they can try to deterimine if he was the downloader or not, if they can, but they can handle that as they see fit.

I see that seperate from the company's decision to fire. I do fault the company for letting him use his laptop without knowing what was on it. At minimum the laptop should have been checked by IT to make sure it did not cause any harm to the network with viruses or any such thing, and I do believe it should have been checked for it's contents. I am simply saying that if you cannot prove he did the downloads or access them on company time, he could claim he had no idea and were on there when he bought it, and it may stand up in court. If he is a porn addict, the warning will mean little and he will access that kind of material even after the warning and if you are montitoring his new pc, you will know and can then fire with proof positive that he is an offender. Of note, I have heard of cases where you should also be able to prove that no one else got on his pc and downloaded the inappropriate material.

pork1

KYMM: Of course you will have him remove his "laptop" from the work site immediately. You can then exercise your right as an imployer to advise the individual of his wrong doing. The PORN, LIKE ALCOHOL, would be treated with the full strength of our policy and terminate when one does either. Your company muddied the water by authorizing the ee to use his own personal computer in the office space, which contained the porn. I would seek attorney advice on "privacy" over intelligence located in his cmputer. He, obviously, felt his personal property was secure from company review based on the ownership of the equipment and the intelligence it stored. A resonable jury, I think would side with the ee on this issue. If you had a signed release for you to enter his personal property, which icludes his PORN history, you could feel more secure in your actions; however, not having one tells me you should go after one or he would have to remove the computer, completely and immediately.

Keep us posted!

PORK