What should I have done?

lhill

An employee was terminated because he could not/would not come to work on time. He was told repeatedly that this better be corrected. We followed our disiplinary procedure and finally terminated. He came back a while later to have lunch with some of his former co-workers and told them that we (management) should have offered him help because we knew he was having personal problems. He said we should have offered him counseling. We do not have an EAP, but I did furnish information to him several times per his request so he could get help through our health insurance. He was not happy with the drs. and never went back. He would not go to a dr. who was going to prescribe any drugs. I went as far as I felt I could without incurring the wrath of HIPAA. This ee has blamed everyone in the company but himself for being fired. How far would you feel comfortable in going to assist someone?

TN HR

I'm not sure what the question is. I don't think that Monday-morning-quarterbacking this is a good idea anyway. However, I will share with you how I would handle the current situation which appears to be disruptive propaganda on the part of a former ee, on company grounds no less.

My first step would be to order the employee off the property. You should make it a policy if you haven't already done so. It is never good practice to allow former employees on the premises for any reason. The potential for bad stuff happening is far too great.

Make it clear that you (or whomever you designate in your HR staff) are his point of contact for all matters realted to his term of employment. Give him an outlet in the form of a name and phone number, but make it patently clear that the premises are off limits.

Gene

TN HR

Sorry. I just reread your post and found the question in your last sentence.

Once all legal compliance requirements are met, I would only go as far as the person is willing to go for help. It's a two-way street as far as I'm concerned. In a perfect world we would work through all these isuues and then sit around holding hands and sing kumbaya. Mine is not a perfect world.

Gene

Don D

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 03-08-05 AT 03:33AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Although Gene is talking to himself in post 1 and 2; I agree with both of him.

ritaanz

I do not know what kind of business you are in. But coming from a manufacturing industry, I am not paid, nor am I qualified, to counsel people who refuse to help themselves. We can give them the tools and direction. That's as far as I go. This is a business environment, not a mental health center.

His personal problems are exacty that, personal. You are his employer not his therapist. There has got be a employee/employer relationship. The buddy system does not work in the HR world.

LarryC

When asked, offer available assistance. Otherwise focus on the behavior (attendance in this case) not what's causing it. This approach will also keep you out of trouble with the ADA.

Dasher

Gee, Ihill, I would like to answer you, however, the correct response was already contained in your question:

"We followed our disiplinary procedure and finally terminated."


Now, forget about it and go forth . . .

lhill

Do any of you discourage employees from continuing communication (lunch, phone calls at work) with terminated employees? We certainly don't aim to tell people with whom they can and cannot socialize, but we've had some real problems with this. It tends to be a group of ees going to lunch with term. ee, then coming back full of stories about how this or that supv. mistreated the poor termed, and the gossip mill starts. (Maybe it's just our company that has more than our share of childish behavior among employees.)

Gillian3

This occurs everywhere, but it is only a problem if you consider it to be one. You can certainly tell employees that phone calls during work hours is for work purposes. You can't control lunches, but you can say, when you hear the gossip - where did you hear that, what a bunch of crap that is, etc. etc., or you can ignore it and the rumor will go the way of rumors - they die out.

marc

When this sort of crap makes it's way back to my desk, I respond with something like: "We will not discuss disciplinary matters with current or former employees, nor the numerous attempts we made to correct the situation."

Of course, that last bit lets them know you did not just sit on your duff, and the first bit tells them that this stuff is confidential ... and will be for any and all EEs.

HRinFL

I agree with G3 and Marc. You cannot control lunches, or who they socialize with at lunch, unless the lunch room is on-site, and you can tell the former ee that cannot enter the premises because it creates a disruption to business.

Discipline is not something that can be discussed. However, what you do have a responsibility to address are the rumors. Most of the time, this is due to the ee talking to other ees, but there are times when this is not the case. There is some liability depending on what the rumors are about. You could be help liable for defamation or slander depending on the comments. I recommend whenever you hear ees discussing a former ee's employment (i.e. "You know why Timmy got fired don't ya?") tell them they do not know the entire story, stop the conversation and remind the ees that talking about other people is not appropriate. Let the ees know that next time disciplinary action will occur. First time you discipline someone for this type of behavior, it will stop the majority of it from taking place.

dchr9203

I would outline the expectations (i.e. here's the start time and you are expected to be on the job on time); then outline the outcomes (i.e. if you continue to report to work late, we will pursue formal discipline up to and including termination of employment); then do it. Its amazing to me how many employees wait until they are in trouble for unacceptable behavior to claim some excuse or another. I've seen employees under a great deal of personal stress still manage to be professional and show up to work on time and perform their job. It is not your company's repsonsibility to "offer him help", but to clearly defined expectations and coach for performance improvement or aid in dismissal. If he asked for help, he should have been referred to the EAP or to the yellow pages. Furthermore, depending on your facility, the employee should not be allowed back on the premises. If your facility is public, say a hospital with a cafeteria, there's nothing you can do about current and ex employees fraternizing during scheduled breaks. However, the employee does not have to be allowed access to non-public areas. By the same token, there's nothing you can about fraternizing outside company hours/premises, nor what the ex-employee tells his former coworkers. Odds are they're not blind, deaf, nor dumb and saw for themselves he was late to work all the time and are secretly "glad" he "got his" because it "ain't fair that we're here on time but he ain't".

neveradull

Amazing! You had an employee with personal problems and fired him. Too bad you couldn't plat God and instill in him the ability to accept responsiblity for his actions. No wonder he has personal problems.