Religious Sermon on the Bus!

I received a complaint from one of our employees that on a recent bus trip to attend a conference for work a religious film was shown. (A preacher giving a sermon.) The staff had been told they could bring films to show on the bus and apparently someone brought this film. I was not on the bus. The director was a passenger on the bus and obviously did allow the showing of the film to continue. Apparently several staff members voiced their dissatisfaction to one another but no one addressed the director. Now that the trip is over they have come to me with their complaint that they were forced to see/listen to a religious film with their consent. My questions are one - As we are a non-profit organization that receives federal funds, i'm wondering if we are in violation of our funding by the showing of religious films and if so is there a website I can go to that I can quote from and number two how would you suggest handling this with the director since he was on the bus and did nothing to stop it?

Comments

  • 24 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • I don't sense that your organization sponsored the religious broadcast or forced people to watch it or made it in any way an employment condition. You said those on the bus were told they could 'bring films to watch'. So, someone brought one of their pastor. Big deal. People could pay attention to it or not pay attention to it. I doubt everyone on the bus sat there spellbound in silence and watched it and were harmed by it. Nobody was required to bring or watch a tape. It was an individual choice. The complainers need to move on to productive activities. In the future, it might be worth discussing with your person in charge of the trip. It could just as easily have been one of my BB King videos and I suppose some musical purist like Ray might have been violated by my choice of entertainment.
  • Hey Don, PBS ran a special on Zydeco music the other night and I actually watched part of it. But, I prefer Boston Pops videos.
  • Don't you just love it. These staffers didn't have the chutzpah to do or say anything on the bus but now, they have the courage to whine and complain.

    The first thing I would have asked them was why? Why didn't they say something? Why didn't they make their pain and agony known? Then after I got their mumbled responses, I'd tell 'em thanks for the info and then proceed to ignore it.



  • I can't quote chapter and verse (so to speak), but I'm pretty sure you haven't jeopardized your federal funding.

    Also, from a purely personal perspective, I don't find the complainers' position to be particularly compelling.

    BUT, having said that, I'm going to offer a different perspective from the other respondents because of a somewhat similar situation that has occurred in my workplace recently. Very long story, but the upshot is that several managers brought forth concerns about a religious activity at work that -- in terms of it's "officialness" -- was roughly equivalent to showing a film on a bus en route to a work-related activity. One of the best points made was that employees of a different religious persuasion might not feel free to complain. Say, for example, the activity was Christian, and although it wasn't conducted by the boss, everyone knows the boss is Christian. The Jewish employee might feel extremely uncomfortable with being more or less "at work" with a Christian activity in progress, but apprehensive that complaining would bring disfavor, even if subtly and/or unconsciously, from the boss. Unconscious prejudice is possibly the most insidious of all, and I submit that none of us are free from it entirely.

    If it were me, I wouldn't allow ees to bring their own films on a bus trip to a conference, because you don't know what you're going to get.


  • There's always the EAP for those who were harmed by the religious tape. I agree with your last thought, Whirlwind; what if it had been a John Holmes video?
  • Or a video of the sex ed class talked about on another thread. Don't allow videos, period.
  • What gets to me is that a bus load of adults, and no one had the blanky de blank sense to say -- I don't think that is appropriate for a group trip, i.e., while the video was running, but they return to work and come running to HR to complain.

    OK -- I'll exhale now!
  • Surely you're no stranger to the groupthink mentality in such a situation - go along to get along - and then save all your ammo for HR when it's "safe" to complain. I think that's probably what happened here. Those who were offended were in a controlled situation (it's not like they could get off the bus and walk to the conference) and were probably too intimidated or embarassed to complain at the time.
  • Aha! Proof that Dasher INhaled!! x:-)
  • Exactly. When you invite folks to bring their own videos, you're liable to get everything from Jesus to John Holmes and all points in between. Why go there?
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-07-04 AT 07:14PM (CST)[/font][br][br]You know, I don't think your company has overstepped its federal funding guidelines - but I'm not an attorney & neither is the large majority of the folks here - so double check with your own attorney to be sure.

    You have a group that was told they could bring some videos with them on a bus trip to a work function. My guess is that when the decision was made to allow the employee's to do so, it was probably thinking that folks would bring Elf, or A Christmas Story or maybe even Ghost Busters - probably not a video with a preacher giving a sermon. So, here's where it begins - clearer guidelines from the beginning regarding how the selection is made - "Hey, folks we're going to show Elf - anyone object?" Go down the list of titles until one is found that everyone can agree on. You don't have a choice not to listen or to merely look away if you're confined to a bus - unless of course you don't mind sitting in the john the entire time. When it comes to content - say it plainly, in order to respect all people and their personal beliefs, we ask that movies with religious content not be brought. Next, the director.

    Do you folks have an Equal Employment Opportunity Policy? If you do, I bet it says something like this: "It is our policy that all decisions involving any aspect of the employment relationship will be made without regard to race, color, sex, creed, religion, age, marital status, national origin, citizenship, the presence of any sensory, mental or physical disability, veteran status, sexual orientation, or any other status or characteristic protected, by local, state, or federal law." Maybe, not all of it - we have to add more here in Washington State. Now legally, no one could probably say that you folks discriminated against those who objected to the video. Legally, they probably don't have a leg to stand on because they can't prove some form of harm. However, ETHICALLY are you folks in line with your own policy? Do you apply it evenly & consistently to everyone employed? "All decisions involving any aspect of the employment relationship will be made without regard..." If it had been a Rabbi in the video - would the reaction be the same - "Hey, we're watching the video & anyone that doesn't like it - well, you're just a bunch of whiners and complainers, so suck it up." Or, what if it had been a Muslim cleric - same reaction? A Wiccan? A Satanist? If you're not prepared to allow for all, then you're not prepared to allow for one. You can't ethically say in your policies that all decisions involving any aspect of the employment relationship will be made without regard, etc. & then not follow through or even maintained. That's what I would say to the director - ethically, it's not consistent with our policies. May not be a popular position on this forum, but it's kept me out of court or from being brought in front of EEOC commissioners.

  • The film was inappropriate...
    If it was me, I would not allow any films to be shown (it is impossible to get a busload of mature adults to agree on anything)(and as an aside I would ban the use of cel phones on the bus). I am sure there are plenty of appropriate activities (though you'll never get a busload of mature adults to agree on what is appropriate activity) such as reading, doing crosswords, playing card games, eating, that mature adults can find to do on a bus. The question is how do you keep the immature adults occupied outside of teaching them to sing a 100 bottles of beer on the wall?
  • The problem is that your Exec. Director was on the bus and did nothing, which means that it was sanctioned. Now your EE's can plausibly claim that they felt offended, but said nothing out of fear for their jobs. Just wait until your next disciplinary meeting and you hear that the discipline is retaliation for objecting to the video, or some similar nonsense. I think I might advise your Exec. Director to be pro-active and issue a simple blanket apology to anyone who may have been offended by the video. That should be the end of it. Needless to say, it was a dumb idea that should not be repeated.
  • Crout: Moving right along, it is apparent, since nobody asked, that all respondents know who John Holmes is (was). I was going to ask why in the world a busload of mature adults should be controlled to the point of banning their cell phones; but, I would rather know how it is that such a refined, educated, well-behaved group of professionals knows who this guy was. Do you have a theory?
  • What's the big deal that everyone knows Clinton's Secretary of Education??????
  • Well I believe that I shall approach the director and advise him that several ee's were uphappy to have a sermon on the bus. As some above have said, it isn't like they could get up and leave if they didn't like it and like others said some may have objected if Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer were played. I think going forward best option is NO films!
  • I disagree. Suppose the tour director had said that anybody who wanted to could initiate a bus-wide group song and others could sing along. Then somebody busted loose with something risque, or 100 bottles of beer on the wall, or the Polish National Anthem, or There once was a man from Nantucket..... Does that indicate that all singing should be banned on future bus trips? Certainly not. Some on the Forum seem to be all about the element of CONTROL. Control people and their behaviors and their minds and you have a positive outcome. No tapes or films, no cell phones, certainly no messages on T-Shirts and any jokes will ban you from future bus trips.

    Hogwash! We're talking about adults here. How about this announcement, in writing and addressed on the bus P.A. system prior to departure. "We hope to have a wonderful and fun trip. We should arrive in Sin City in about six hours. All of you were invited to bring along your video tapes and you're welcome to stand and entertain us with a song that allows us to join in. And we intend to have fun all the way to Sin City. The only rule we have is that if anybody is offended in the least by your selection, it comes down and we move on to the next row. ABC is not responsible for the content of your selection or the opinions expressed on this bus ride."

    Those who would try to control our every behavior and experience drive me up the proverbial fuc**** wall.
  • Well, call me crazy, but I only want to control the behavior of people who could put me in the position of having to defend an EEOC charge or a lawsuit, even though it drives me up the effing wall too. But I'm funny that way.
  • Don, my theory on why all the educated Baby Boomers are familiar with Mr. Holmes and his body (snort!) of work is because he was big (har!) in the 70's, BEFORE we became educated, responsible, less-fun adults. I understand your rant about controlling behavior, and you have a valid point, but for me it just comes down to the fact that I don't need the extra hassles. That's the weasel's way out, I know, but there it is.
  • Okay, Crout, I like your theory, but here's an alternative explanation: I had no idea of what "pornography" was, but I had heard there could be a link between this thing called "pornography" and workplace hostile environment. So, being a responsible and dedicated professional who's always looking out for the best interests of my employer, I felt it was necessary to educate myself so I would recognize it if I saw it.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it. x:D
  • I'm still wondering if our federal funding could be in jeopardy? That's the real question here for me as the poster that started this whole thing.
  • Mwilds post is probably the closest you can get to a good answer from this group.

    We have lots of state, county and federal funding in our shop. I don't think the events described would stop any dollars from flowing here. For one thing - the event was for the EEs, not for the general public. For another, the video was EE driven, not company sponsored. The blanket apology suggested in another post would probably be a good idea to plainly communicate to all that this was not intended to offend, that it was provided by an EE and is not the company's opinion, etc etc.
  • In my opinion, as it was not your organization that sponsored the showing I would say NO. I have had disgruntled employees contact funding sources with complaints in the past and an honest reply with the facts ends it.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-08-04 AT 11:15AM (CST)[/font][br][br]njjel,

    As I said in my first post, I seriously doubt that your federal funding is at risk. I'm tempted to say I'm virtually certain it's not if the complaints are resolved internally. If, in the worst case scenario, some overwrought complainant took their case to the EEOC (or as neveradull said, the funding source), you might have to take some further corrective action (or have some 'splainin' to do) but I still doubt you'd lose the funding. The point is, I think this is the kind of thing where you can't get a definitive answer unless and until the worst case scenario plays out. Which, of course, you don't want to happen.




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