Severance Agreement

Elle

Hello,

Not sure but some of you might remember my post from last week about my first RIF and how scared I was. Well as it turns out she handled it better than I thought but it was still difficult. Well now I'm in the process of finalizing the term and I just received her seperation agreement in the mail signed and dated, but the 'witness' line was filled out.

Is it imperative to have that signed? I had a lawyer draw up the paper work so I'm not sure if it is necessary. I know to sign the 'accepted by' line but not sure what to do about the witness.

Any input would be great, thanks!

Don D

You can bet if a lawyer drew it up, he felt it was needed.

Elle

Yes, but what do I do now? I asked her to have it witnessed when she signs it and I guess she just didn't care.

BTW, our attorney is a she not a he.

Down_the_Middle

Having no witness is likely the ee's response to maintaining confidentiality with the issue. I've seen this frequently and it has never been as issue. Have an HR employee witness (acknowledging the signature)and as long as the witness is not the same person that executes the agreement, you s/b ok...

NM _Tom

We require that the employee get it notarized. I would not accept the document as provided. I would call the person back and give them three options, re-sign in front of a witness and get a signature, have it notarized, or leave it as is and forfeit the severance payment because she hasn't properly executed the document.

JMHO

Elle

I don't want to forfeit the severance payment because of that. I also don't want to ask her to notarize it now b/c I didn't tell her that I needed it notarized. I am a notary but I can't do it since I am accepting it.

Thanks for your input.

Still not sure what to do. I want to excute this properly but feel stuck now.

AJ SPHR

If your attorney drew it up for you, why not ask the attorney who created the agreement for you for her opinion? We do separation agreements but don't have a witness line - just employee's signature and then my signature after they mail it back to me, so I don't think not having a witness will matter. But I suggest checking with your attorney who will be more familiar with your state laws and how your circuit courts are interpreting and enforcing these agreements.

pork1

The Witness line is for the purpose of witnessing the signature as "being real and valid"! If you can resonably identify the signature from one of your many signatures in her file. I would sign the form acknowledging the missing signature in conflict with the written instructions, date it and sign it with a witness in your office that knows full well that the envelope came back with the witnessed line unsigned. Put it away in your file. In a legal proceeding you can ask the x-ee to identify your letter with her/his signature, which validate the information and her failure to have the form executed in front of a witness!

File it and move on! Even our "HOGs" are smart as many of our judges these days, and understand the purpose of a witness is for only one reason: "to verify the valid nature of the original signature" to whom the letter is attended!!!

PORK

NM _Tom

The witness line is on the agreement for a reason. I wouldn't disregard it because you feel uncomfortable about the situation or that you feel you are placing a burdon on the separated employee. You have an obligation to your company as the individual executing the agreement to make sure it is legally sound.

I may be wrong, but I think on some level you know what you should do, but are trying to avoid an uncomfortable situation. If I'm wrong, please accept my apologies, I'm not a psychologist.

pork1

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Elle: The witness signature is for one purpose, to validate the signature of the concerned individual as it pertains to this one document. You most likely have several true signatures of the concerned x-ee. Check to make sure it is reasonably close, you could evn call her to validate that the signature was posted by her/him. You then sign the document with a statement that says you received this document returned from the concerned individual without a witness signature. You can even have someone in your office assist you with their signature vouching that the document was returned in this condition which was contray to your instructions. In any legal procedding you will be able to ascertain if the document was executed by the concerned person and was the signature applied with out outside pressure! All to prove that the x-ee knew of the document and acknowledged that it pertained to the ee and her severence executed on xxx date.

After verifying you have a real and true signature of the x-ee, FILE IT and move on to more important concerns. You have done all that you need to do!

PORK

Below you will find ways of making a "mountain out of a mole hill"! I agree in the telphone conversation that you make to verify that the ee did get this agreement and that she/he did sign it and sent it back, you could easily ask for her to come by and initial the document. End of concerns. However, once you clear that the circumstance is as I predict it will be, there is no need to stir up a hornets nest, if she/he is unable or inconvenienced in any way, immediately, back off and depend on your professional ability to know the ee's signature and the fact that the ee knows you made the offer and accepted, the offer, as written. Under oath the individual can not deny her/his signature on the document and any number of other documents in your possession. I have been there and done that and been tested in court and two, three, four, documents with the same signature will trump any denial, every time!!! Given any doubt that you can validate and compare the signature, then build a mountain from a mole hill, and CYA with multiple layers of extra work.

Don D

Simply tell her to come by the office and initial the signature in front of an HR staffmember. That shouldn't put her out too much.

Don D

With all due respect, I disagree with Pork's advice. the letter came back to you unwitnessed, in the mail and you have no proof that is her legal signature or that she sent it (even though certainly she did). Witness signatures serve a valuable function in legal processes. Knowing the signature to be valid, by requiring that it be witnessed, is only for the protection of the company. If, for example, the company tries to sue the individual later for breaking the agreement and you cannot prove that she agreed to it in the first place, where does that position you. "No sir, I never signed any letter. The last time I saw it it was laying on the table at the bowling alley. I just got a check in the mail from them 3 weeks later!"

None of the severance letters I've initiated have had witness requirements; but yours WAS drafted, after all, by an attorney, who felt it was needed.

Can someone please tell me why the suggestion to simply have her come in and re-sign in front of a witness would not be sufficient?

I suggest the last thing you should do is "Set it........And Forget it!"

ScorpioHR

"None of the severance letters I've initiated have had witness requirements; but yours WAS drafted, after all, by an attorney, who felt it was needed"

The only severance agreements that our attorney advised us to have a witness signature line on were those for employee's who had a non-compete agreement as part of their original contract-

"Can someone please tell me why the suggestion to simply have her come in and re-sign in front of a witness would not be sufficient"

I think there is probably nothing wrong with the suggestion Don, and it certainly is reasonable. However, I know I have had more than one or two (smile) ee's who I never wanted to lay eyes on after they left..xx(
But, if having the ee come in and initial, etc. is what needs to be done to cover the company, seem's to me, that is what should happen.