another "what if"
deniseE
902 Posts
Suppose you have an EE that has some kind of chronic medical condition that can be controlled by either lifestyle or medication.
And suppose this ee neglects to take care of themselves: not eating, not taking medication, whatever...
and suppose that this condition and the ee's failure to take appropriate action causes a continous disruption at work...often requiring that an ambulance is called to tend to the ee.
IF you had a policy that required ee's to be fit for duty, would this fit into that policy.
If you didn't, aside from talking with the ee, what would you do?
Thanks!!
And suppose this ee neglects to take care of themselves: not eating, not taking medication, whatever...
and suppose that this condition and the ee's failure to take appropriate action causes a continous disruption at work...often requiring that an ambulance is called to tend to the ee.
IF you had a policy that required ee's to be fit for duty, would this fit into that policy.
If you didn't, aside from talking with the ee, what would you do?
Thanks!!
Comments
You have tap danced around what the health condition is, but you might get the doctor to confirm that it can be controlled by medication & lifestyle then maybe..............big maybe you can also address it as a performance issue.
If they get taken away by ambulance, then released without being admitted then return to work it might not be FMLA, so you have the attendance route you could go.
My $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman
Since we're an office environment....we're really not looking at safety issues that would be present in a factory or similar environment.
Lack of written policy is the crux of the problem right now!
That does not mean you should not be addressing performance issues and Fit For Duty issues, it just means you need to tread carefully because of the FMLA protections.
Well, it's kind of the same, just as the employee chooses to smoke a joint before work, which effects their ability to perform their job, the other employee neglects to take their insulin shot, which effects how they perform thier job.
Just b/c they are medical conditions doesn't give them a right to act as if they have the right to constantly disrupt the work environment b/c they don't think it is their responsibility to control their condition. I worked with this one girl who would constantly have problems with her diabetis b/c she wouldn't take care of herself properly. Honestly, I think she was just craving the attention that came along with it.
If this really is an issue that you are willing to do something about, consult with your legal councel about putting together a policy, who will be affected by the policy and how it will be carried out. The last thing you want is for an ee to claim that they are being unfairly targeted and that they are going to file an EEOC claim b/c they are covered by the ADA.
Are we running into a problem because we are now "perceiving" these ee's as disabled (I think that's a part of the ADA definition of disabled)? I'm thinking we are better to focus on the problem of the work not getting done...and if the ee is unwilling/unable to qualify for FMLA then we're not violating any of the ee's rights....right?
If the employer knows or should have known facts that support the FML consideration, then it is up to the employer to take the steps necessary to designate the time as FML or not. In your case, if you are not certain, send them the paperwork, certified mail, that requires them to bring in the medical certification. That starts a 15 day time-frame for the EE to bring in the certification.
You can designate the time as FML, dependent upon the certification, which starts the 12 week clock, or you can make the designation dependent upon the medical certication. Either way, it is the employers responsibility to act.
Those types of people make me want to scream,"look, you're killing yourself and it's p#ssing everyone off!"
The biggest irony was that she was the manager of our Health and Beauty aids department x:o
As an aside, I have a friend who dated a neat gal who had epilepsy. She did EVERYTHING her Dr. recommended and was religious about taking her meds. and still had a grand mal seizure every 6 months or so. Point being, are you positive these folks are neglecting themselves? If you are, then they are making choices for which there may be consequences.
Either way, I would agree with the others who suggest focusing on performance.
It's one of those tough lines for each of us...and I'm just not sure how we can best address this for both the ee, the employer and surrounding ee's.
Thank you for all of your input!!
and suppose that this condition and the ee's failure to take appropriate action causes a continuous disruption at work...often requiring that an ambulance is called to tend to the ee."
You can't possibly know whether or not the ee is neglecting to take care of themselves, unless you are with that person or persons 24 hours a day & walking in their shoes. Even if they say something to you, unless you are with them in the doctor's office, have a note from the doctor, are with them at home, etc. you still won't know & a fitness for duty won't tell you what their prescribed treatment is and at what intervals medicine needs to be taken, etc. it will only tell you whether or not the ee is able to do the job as outlined on your job description/analysis or whatever other criteria is developed. Nor do you want to know these things. Focus only on what is required by law (FMLA) and work performance. Don't get sideswiped by irrelevant data.
On a serious note, anyone who considers themselves capable of evaluating another individual's adherence to their prescribed medical regimen and who thinks themselves wualified to insert themselves into the patient-doctor equation, is a braver soul than I, and is on the thinnest of ice from a labor law standpoint. These are thoughts best kept to yourself if you insist on having them in the first place.
I was kidding. What I meant by "a la Ally McBeal" is that she often fantasizes about stuff like slapping someone silly.
Dealing with people in the workplace that literally seem to be trying to make themselves sicker and sicker on a daily basis is probably pretty nightmarish. Even though one can "never know" certain medical things and situations - it's pretty damn obvious when someone who has a problem like say low blood sugar skips lunch when they don't have to and then whines and moans about not eating and then ends up fainting in the lobby. I mean, come on. That is a situation that calls for slap or shake therapy.
I would feel differently if someone was genuinely sick and doing all they could to deal with it. Even though co-workers don't see or know everything, in some situations it is pretty obvious when people are just being down right stupid. If and when those situations occur, over and over and over....I would tend to want to do a little shaking or slapping, call me Cruella de Ville.
Nobody gets me today x:'(
"Even though one can "never know" certain medical things and situations - it's pretty damn obvious when someone who has a problem like say low blood sugar skips lunch when they don't have to and then whines and moans about not eating and then ends up fainting in the lobby. I mean, come on."
This is what I mean by opinion and judgement calls. Maybe the person didn't eat because they are taking other medications, maybe they have a doctor's appointment later in the day & it involves testing, maybe they are trying to lose weight, maybe they don't want to really face the fact that they have a serious medical condition, maybe, maybe, maybe. As I said before, unless it's work related - your opinions, my opinions, any other forumite's opinions just don't matter, we are not doctors & we don't walk in the ee shoes. We have to keep it to work related performance period.
Did you notice my nickname for you? I hope you don't mind, but Cinderella was my favorite movie as a kid & I loved it when the mice called her Cinderelly. Have a great day!
You don't know what is causing the conduct issues.
Don't assume anything as the cause.
Talk to the employees to get their side of situation and explanation for why they behave as they do. You don't have to lead them into saying its a medically caused. Leave it open for them to say it.
HOWEVER, if you have already documented the existence of medical conditions or the employee is self-disclosing the existence of a medical condition and the work problems seem reasonably related to the documented or self-disclosed medicla condition, you are free to (and should) inquire if those have an impact on the conduct. You want to either get a yes or no from the emplyee to eliminate the consideration of an ADA disability, if the anser is no, or to address the consideration of an ADA disability and the need for reasonable accommodation if the answer is yes. If yes, then go through the interactive process to the extent that it s then need ed to estabohsi if an ADA disaiblity exists and whether or not, and if so, a reasonable accomodation can be imllmeneted effectively to help the employee remain within the bounds of proper conduct.
The issue of medication is dfficult. While you may consider the use of effect of medication in determining the impact of the medical condition on major life activities (but not in Calfionria), the fact that the employee may be refusing to take the prescribed medication is not that simple. You have to approach the matter in more depth than just saying "refusing to take -- too bad, you're not disabled under ADA". For example, the employee may be refusing to take the medication because it significantly impairs other major life activities. There are a couple of court rulings that have gone down that road in support of the employee. If you have such a situation, you need to talk to legal counsel.
But back to the basic issue, if ADA is not at play here, you certanly can and should hold the employees accountable for any violations of policy and proper conduct in the office.