Caught at a job fair

System

Just to let you know, I deleted this thread because the question came from an ordinary employee who didn't belong on Employers Forum. We're not biased against employees, but this Forum is for discussing issues facing employers. There are other discussion boards that focus on employees' issues.

The Employers Forum is for HR professionals and others who represent employers, including managers, benefits professionals, workers' comp professionals, in-house counsel, etc.

Thanks to the person who clicked on "Alert" to let me know about this thread.

James Sokolowski
HRhero.com

mcmel

I want to know where the employee forum is. Let's go rile them up a little.

Kidding! Kidding!

Don D

But James, could you go back in and forward me a copy of Hatchetman's analysis of this one. I thought it was a novel take on another way to look at a simple lie by an employee followed by his dismissal. x:-)

Paul in Cannon Beach

Ok, I will probably have my subscription revoked and James will ask for my HR HERO t-shirt back but let me pose the question about whether there should be a place for non-HR people to come to ask for advice from HR pros on this forum.

Why? There are many organizations without a designated HR person and the employees there have no one to turn to for advice.

Keep the forum for HR PROS but consider a section where non-HR pros could come for info or advice. Just thoughts. Can't hurt to ask.

LisaMN

Wouldn't that require another HR har har de har section x:D ?

System

Paul, we'd welcome anyone who does HR duties at work, like an office manager in a small branch office. The key is that they're representing the employer and looking for help regarding the employer's obligations.

But it's very different when a rank-and-file employee without HR responsibilities posts a question on the Forum. It's usually something like "My boss disciplined me because I did something he didn't like, and I think it's unfair." Then a platoon of Forumites descend on him, waving the Employment-at-Will battle flag. It's not a pretty sight.

The employee had a valid beef, from an employee's point of view, but the Employers Forum isn't the place for him to find support.

James Sokolowski
HRhero.com

Parabeagle

A descending platoon of Forumites would sure be a formidable sight, James. All dressed in our HR Hero t-shirts? x;-)

There is the added complication that the poster is detailing his problem in the light most favorable to him and soliciting advice when we have only heard one side of the story. Never a good thing.

deniseE

AND I would hate to have any "advice" or commentary posted and then used against this boss!!!!

Although he was entertaining....I agree that this is not the proper location.

neveradull

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 02-09-04 AT 03:29PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Thanks James for the deletion however, I disagree that the employee had a "valid beef". At a minimum I found him to be ethically and morally challenged with an obvious "I am mr. wonderful" so don't hold me responsible for my actions.

Don D

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 02-09-04 AT 06:26PM (CST)[/font][br][br]I notice all of you are calling 'her' 'him'. No man would call in sick unless he was sick. x:o The rules are the rules and the Forum rule in this regard was given to us many moons ago when the student visitors were boarding this bus. What would we have next, a board for people who had been terminated? James, this thread is getting more comments than the one you deleted.

Paul in Cannon Beach

James,

"Then a platoon of Forumites descend on him, waving the Employment-at-Will battle flag. It's not a pretty sight."

When you put it that way... Naw, you are probably right.

Paul

sonny

I agree it needed to go, but I at least give the person credit for their honesty in admitting they were an employee. Many of you are good at seeing thru student and employee posts, but I bet a few have slipped thru.

Hatchetman

I think many of you were unnecessarily assuming the individual intentionally lied to the employer about not feeling well and not coming into work.

If I recall his posts, he never said that the time he went to the job fair was the time he normally would have been at work. But I responded on the assumption it was.

In re-reading the posts later, I got the impression, and that's why I posted again to clarify, that the time at the job fair was AFTER the time he would have been at work on the part time schedule. I admit I could be wrong.

The question he was posing was that he had called in ill earlier int heday to report that he wouldn't be at work. And then later, it apprared he was saying that he went to the job fair. The next day his supervisor after learning he had been at the job fair after not reporting to work because he had not been well, questioned him on what he was doing at the job fair IF he was too ill to report to work.

If the work time and the job fair time were separate, the superivsor was clearly off base to inquire.

But even if the times were the same, while I have no problem with the supervisor just inquirying about that to clariy the reason for the absence, unless the supervisor could establish that the employee misused the excuse of not feeling well, there was no place for the inquiry to really go.

Let me ask those of you who thought the employee lied because he or she went to the job fair, when one of your employees calls in ill, do you require or expect the employee to remain in bed, to be totally incapacitated for all activities during that day (incluign after the work day schedule hours) or do you make a distinction that "unable to work" could involve different factors than shopping or conducting personal business?

Don D

1) "CAUGHT" At Job Fair. Titled by the employee. Caught implies wrongdoing. To me that was the employee's admission that he did wrong by lying. If not, he might have titled the post "Wrongly Accused While At Job Fair". Saying I was 'caught' is an acknowledgement of wrongdoing.

2) Although it can't be resurrected, the original post said 'I called in sick so I could attend the job fair'. Another admission by the employee. She did not say I called in sick and later on by the way, went down to the job fair. She said she called in sick so she could go to the job fair. She did not say she was ill, called in sick and there was a job fair in town that she later attended. There is a glaring difference. And yes, it does make a difference. The issue is not that she should have been flat on her back in bed. The issue is that she should not lie if she expects to remain employed.

The questioner lied, then got caught, then appealed to the Forum for support based on the fact that the job is part time, has no benefits and things are tough in the community. x:-)

There's my opinion.

Whatever

If you call in sick, it should not mean that you don't feel well enough to work but you feel well enough to go shopping, conduct personal business, go the beach, go to the job fair.

It was obvious to me that the poster got caught in a lie and was hoping that we would find a way to help he/she save their job. Furthermore, we only got half the story...maybe the person was already an attendance problem.

cebudragonlady

Do we, as employers, expect our employees to tell us when they have been to a job fair? I don't.

In this case, the employee lied and was fired.

What if the employee had told the truth ? Would the employee have been fired anyways ? If so, the supervisor has a problem.


Chari

rad

My take was that he lied. I kind of thought it was a trick question when I first read it- he lied, he got caught, he got fired, where's the mystery? That seems like a natural progression of actions to me.

safety

My advice to this (im)poster would have been to check on the at-will issues in the state in question, then (s)he can contemplate the meaning of this while filing for unemployment benefits and searching for another job.

System

(im)poster? x:7 That's my kind of humor, Safety.

James Sokolowski
HRhero.com

Don D

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 02-10-04 AT 05:24PM (CST)[/font][br][br]I'm unclear on Chari's post. Are you saying if an employee deceives the employer, but then admits it later, after being caught, there should be no penalty? And aren't you implying that since we could not expect an employee to be upfront about wanting to go to a job fair, then we should therefore not expect honesty and should overlook a lie? And if a weak attempt at honesty follows being caught, a supervisor who took action "would be the one with the problem"? If those are your positions, I'm amazed.

Let's not forget that this scenario very likely cost the employer time and resources in scrambling to provide position backup. It's not as if the lie had no impact just because the position is part time, without benefits.

cebudragonlady

Don~
I am not condoning lying by the employee, but wondering if the employee would have been fired by the Supervisor anyways if he/she had told the truth? The issue should have been addressed via the company's attendance policy re number of days "out" called sick - not what they were doing on those "sick" days.

In the past with other companies, I have had subordinates come up to me and tell me straight up front - that they were looking for other positions that paid better - okay, I said , just let me know when you need to be off. At least I then knew what was coming .

That is a better way than playing "sick-day" police.


Chari

Ruskanen

I think when an employee is looking for a new job it is a sore subject with the employer. Many companies would take adverse action if they knew their employee was looking for a job, therefore, employees lie when they have to go to a job fair. If more employers would react like this...

"In the past with other companies, I have had subordinates come up to me and tell me straight up front - that they were looking for other positions that paid better - okay, I said , just let me know when you need to be off. At least I then knew what was coming ."

(from post #19),...then maybe employees would be more up front with their employers when they have to be absent. If we get mad at them and scold them, it isn't going to prevent them from looking.

Here's a question for you. What do YOU tell your employer when YOU have an interview for a new job and have to be absent during the work day?

Don D

I take a half day of vacation or either take care of it before or after work or at lunch break. But the question is not really what do we do in this case if WE want to go to a job fair. The question is what to do when someone is discovered to have missed work under false pretenses.

AluminumBoy

I agree.
o
I also agree that an employee may be concerned about disclosing his/her job search.

This person could have asked for the day off far in advance. Probably ok to make something up, like a family event, school project, etc...but give the employer an opportunity to fill the spot. This person had no regard for the employer...apparently because he/she is bitter about how things are going there.

I'd can this person.