Pastor's professional expenses

DiBurns

I have volunteered to help revise the HR practices at my church, (ELCA in MN). The pastors have enjoyed pretty much latitude in expensing purchases for themselves and their home computers. They work at home frequently (due to the nature of the job and for their convenience, they have fully equipped private offices at the church), and want the church to buy software and ink replacements for their personally owned computers, pay for their vestments (shirts, albs) and the maintenance there of, devotional literature and CDs, which they expect to become their personal property upon leaving. My question is this - what is the 'norm' for a church paying for such items and the expectation for their 'ownership' after the call (churchese for employment of pastors) is severed? They are well paid (salary and benefits for self and family) and they exempt much of their income to taxes as 'housing allowance' under IRS rules. Are they pushing the envelope or is this the norm? We are getting practices from the synod and from other religious organizations (seminary, colleges, etc) but I wanted to see what HR professionals with experience in this area thought. Thanks!!!!

Paul in Cannon Beach

Diburns,

I don't know what the norm is for the scenario above but if you would like you, can e-mail me and I will forward your question to our business manager who also does the books for the church I attend. He might be able to help.

My e-mail is [email]paulknoch@hotmail.com[/email]

JM in ATL

I don't have experience in doing HR for a church either, but who is the "head" of this church? Who owns the land, building, etc.? Who employed these Pastor's?

That is who I would ask as to how they would like this handled? Can they have an allowance for certain things or a reimbursement plan up to a certain amount?

I don't think what they are asking is completly uncalled for, but it sounds like some may be abusing the benefit. Personally, I would want my Pastor to keep current on devotional and faith related materials. To constantly be involved and engrossed in his faith and higher learning.

I would recommend you talk to the head of the church or the church committee or accounting department who can maybe set reasonable allowances for such items. To be fair, if nobody has previously given him a budget or set perimeters for what is covered, then he will use the benefit to the fullest extent possible. Hopefully you can help set a budget for the benefits by talking to the heads of the church.

slogan

I serve on our church's finance team. What we have done is appropriated a certain amount of money each fiscal year for the pastors "professional development". It is his discretion as to how he uses it, but once he uses it, it is gone for the remainder of the year. We have stipulated that "professional development" can encompass the purchase of books, cd's, videos, seminars, conferences, classes, software, etc. I believe we are fairly generous with what we appropriate because our pastor has rarely used all of his alloted funds.

We are a "Community Church" with ties to the Southern Baptist Convention, but we are at the same time independent.

KathiHR

My husband has served in the ministry before (Southern Baptist), & just as Slogan said, he received a budgeted amount each year for books, conferences, etc. The printer cartridges, software, paper, etc. are more of office supplies & were also budgeted - that becomes more of the honor system, but if you can't trust your pastor with his office supplies, you've got a bigger problem than how much to budget!

Kathi

DiBurns

>I serve on our church's finance team. What we
>have done is appropriated a certain amount of
>money each fiscal year for the pastors
>"professional development". It is his discretion
>as to how he uses it, but once he uses it, it is
>gone for the remainder of the year. We have
>stipulated that "professional development" can
>encompass the purchase of books, cd's, videos,
>seminars, conferences, classes, software, etc.
>I believe we are fairly generous with what we
>appropriate because our pastor has rarely used
>all of his alloted funds.
>
>We are a "Community Church" with ties to the
>Southern Baptist Convention, but we are at the
>same time independent.



Do you then allow the pastor to keep the books, CDs, etc when he/she leaves? If one uses the funds for seminars, training, etc there's not usually a tangible take-away but if the church is paying for books etc, do they remain the property of the church or of the pastor?

Pork

non-profit, NOT FOR PROFIT,& CHURCHES:

These usually fall under the guide lines of some governing body. I would certainly hope within your church organization there is a FINANCE OR BUDGET COMMITTEE to whom your concerns should be addressed. To keep from embarassing yourself or your pastors you should research and read your committee documentation for an education before you go accusing someone of "purposeful intend to defraud the position to which the pastor is appointed"! My wife is the Chair of the Finance Committee and I'll seek her thoughts and if there is any new revelation, I'll come back to you tomorrow! Each church is different but in our system there are districts and superintendents that provide the organization with administrative supervision and guidance. Maybe your church system has something similiar from which you could get an answer to your concerns without raising a RED FLAG to wrong doing!

PORK

slogan

At out church, yes we allow the pastor to take the books, cd's, etc with him when and if he leaves. We feel that the money appropriated for those items is a perk for both his benefit and ours. If he is more informed and all, then that benefits the church. But it is also something he can take with him.

I do agree that the money budgeted for office supplies, i.e. toner & all, is an honor system thing. He does have a computer to use at the office. If he has his own computer, then the expenses for that are his responsibilty, not the churchs. We feel that in this area, it is just like me here at work. The company does not pay for my printer cartriges. Our Finance Team is the oversight committee and holds the pastor and staff accountable for all expenditures. It helps that we have at least one CPA in our church to audit the books on a yearly basis.