Illegal Temps

HRratrace

Looking for some feedback...help please!

My employer (much to my dismay and regardless of my numerous arguments to the owners and to management) is using a temp service that we know for a fact is sending us illegal aliens as temporary workers. And we're not talking about one or two people...we're talking about the whole bunch (100+ persons). I work for a family owned company, and the owners are all members of upper management...so it's pretty much what they say goes when it comes to day to day operations such as this. They make the rules...they are the COO, CEO, all the way down to the Division Managers. It's ALL family (fathers/sons), and they are all of the same opinion. They bluntly have told me that they DO NOT CARE.

So...sit back and shut up? Pursue this further?

My direct report (HR Director) is aware of the situation and has tried to talk some sense into these guys, pointing out that since we have knowledge we are legally liable, and they give him the same song and dance...DO NOT CARE.

???Thoughts??? Is there anything I can do, and if so, what are the ramifications?

awilliams

HRratrace,

You have posted a very intriguing question. Your question broaches the topic of our upcoming Special Report on Ethics for HR. Often HR personnel find themselves between a rock and a hard place ethically. Here, you may need to make a decision regarding whether to report your employer for violations of the law or bring your concerns to the decision makers and let the chips fall where they may. Hopefully one of the HR professionals on this Forum can give you some guidance, but ultimately you will have to make your own decision about what course of action you take. I am interested to learn how this situation turns out.

Anne Williams
Attorney Editor
M. Lee Smith Publishers, LLC

Tish

Many times we in HR have our hands tied when it comes to management making the right choices. The best advice some times is continue to let them know and document, document, document that the communication was done. Change what you can. Good Luck. I work for a company [GM] that I have similiar concerns about. I just keep educating him, tell him the possible out come of not doing it right. The final discission is his.

HRratrace

I appreciate your responses, and I had a feeling that I would be advised something along those lines. Too many times I find myself in this situation...where I know morally and ethically what the right (and legal) thing for the company to do is, but the powers that be disagree with me. Then I'm in a position where I can either be quiet, yet remain a part of the problem, or speak up, and potentially work myself out of a job. I'm sure I will spend many a nights pondering about what to do with this particular situation.

Anyone else that has their $0.02 to put in, please let me know what you think and what you would do should you happen to find yourself in this particular (or similar) situation. I've got my body armor on, and I'm ready to hear what you have to say...

FHR

Well, I suspect you will have alot of forumites advising you to brush up your resume.
I also agree with the above post that reccomends you document all the communication you have expressed advising against this practice. My former company was also ethically and legally compromised and this was my method of CYA. In a way it is a relief. YOU know what is right, if you can't effect change then document your position and move forward.
Cristina

Don D

The good news is, "YOU HAVE OPTIONS". The bad news is, "NOT MANY". You can ignore it, which you obviously are not doing and will not do (good). You can rest with the knowledge that you have made your concerns known to management and they have indicated they don't care and will stay with the arrangement they have. The other option is what I would do. I would reduce my concern to written form and present it to your supervisor or one of the owners. I would be careful not to project the attitude, "OK, I told you guys, but I'm gonna put it in writing just to protect me so I can say it wasn't me, it was you who made this decision". Don't go there, although that's the intent. After you give one of them your complete, thorough memo, if they ask you why you did that just tell them, "I just wanted to be absolutely sure that you knew my read on this thing. I just wanted to be sure you had all facts and concerns as I understood them strictly from a labor law perspective." Then let it die. Your ethics will not have suffered one bit.

HRsage

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 01-13-04 AT 04:10PM (CST)[/font][br][br]"And we're not talking about one or two people...we're talking about the whole bunch (100+ persons)"

I'm just wondering how you can be so sure that over 100 people are illegal?

Anyway, CYA...document your and your supervisor's advice. If it bothers you that much then maybe you should update the resume, but that's up to you. If your company is unethical on this aspect what else are they doing that they don't care about?

I'd pull up an article on the Wal-Mart situation that happened not too long ago and present it to the higher ups. That was basically the same situation.


Good luck and keep us posted.

Carey

I agree with pulling the Wal-Mart info and would do an internet search for other examples. I would try to quantify the risk for them. Tell them exactly what the possible monetary penalties - in addition to criminal - could be. Do this in writing with your recommendation about what they should do and you're doing your job and documenting that you recommended following the law. I'd also check into any possible whistleblower statutes in your state to see if there are any protections for you.

HRratrace

Good point...and to be completely honest, I am not 100% sure that they all are illegal, but I'd place a good sized bet that most or all are, and here is why...

A few years ago we encountered this same situation with this same temp service. There was a different HR Director in place at the time, and she "ran the checks" on all 150 temps that we were using at the time. 141 of those 150 were illegal and were using fraudulent social security numbers.
Just 8 months ago, our new HR Director ran "his checks" on 89 temps that we had in place. 88 of 89 came back as being illegal and using fraudulent social security numbers.
I was not permitted to be involved in these "checks" that were run, so I don't know what methods or means they used to determine this, otherwise I would disclose this info as well.

But good point...I do not know for sure.

SMace

I did a quick search on Federal laws regarding hiring illegals. The penalties are:

Employer penalties range from $100 to $11,000 for each employee for which the Form I-9 is not properly completed, retained, or made available for inspection by the INS. An employer who engages in a practice of hiring illegal foreign nationals may also be subject to imprisonment for up to six months. The INS is authorized to enforce the requirements on employment eligibility verification.

Also do a google on Walmart and illegal aliens and you might come up with some good ammo. You may want to look up whistleblower protection laws.

I would not work for a company that hired illegals, know they are breaking the law and don't care. I'm sure that is not the only thing they are doing wrong. I'm sorry for you. Good luck.

JM in ATL

I have both questions, and suggestions:

First, if you are using a temp agency for these positions then the temp agency is liable for not having the proper I-9 information. However, I would read up on the current situation Wal-Mart is facing.

They contracted with a company to clean for them, however this company employed only illegals. Wal-Mart was raided and I believe that they are being implicated in the INS case that they knew about the cleaners being illegal.

You have done your part by informing your employer. What I would do personally is to write a document that you notified your employer on X date that this was occuring in the company. Have the letter notarized if you want to go that far, but then mail the letter to yourself and never open it. You will have a signed and dated document that can be used in a court of law clearing yourself from liability (possibly). You still knew about it and didn't report the situation.

Really the choice is yours. Report your company or the temp agency and risk losing your job, or do nothing, stay employed and risk losing your job if you get caught.

I faced a similar situation not too long ago. I had a lawyer look into it and the answer was pretty much that on the first offense I would receive a monetary fine. I guess it all depends on what is important to you.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Shadowfax

JM are you saying a lawyer told you YOU had PERSONAL liability if you had knowledge but no active role? Were you told you had an obligation to make an official report? When ratrace says the co. is family, family, family - I assume it is not publicly owned? Unless there is something in the n ew 'terror' acts, unless you are an officer with reporting duties, it has never been a crime to work for a co. engaged in illegal practices. Clearly, Ratrace needs to document concerns, but I do not appreciate the 'necessity' of reporting the problem. Of course, ratrace, and probably o a lot of others will lose their jobs when, and if, this ever hits the fan..but you have really concerned me with your thought of personal liability. If people want to report evidence of crimes, and are willing to pay the personal price that comes with that, I applaude them. But, I don't want to live where we are 'forced' to report, unless there are overiding puiblic policy reasons (publicly held co.) for doing so. Would you please elaborate. Thanks.

Shadowfax

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 01-14-04 AT 08:58AM (CST)[/font][br][br]I thought I posted a question, but apparently messed up - I don't think I was offensive. JM are you saying a lawyer told you that an ee with no power to force a change in co policy has some personal liability for not reporting the co to the authorities? I assumed this was not a publicly held co, so I am having trouble findinng any obligation or duty of the employee to report what he beleives to be an illegal act or even a crime. Generally, absent some clear public policy reason, Americans are not encouraged to report to big brother. Could oyou elaborate on this issue please?
Sorry, now it's there twice. This system has been doing funy things the last two days.

Pork

You might try to cool it for a few weeks, don't press a head, right now in any direction. Hopefully, President Bush (MY PRESIDENT)will push the answer to all of us real soon! It reads like they are very strong on the work ethic of the Hispanic ees and is willing to support them in their illegal efforts in order for the company to benefit. If so, then they must also be ready to also sponsor them to become legal, which could either cost the ee or the employer not sure as yet. I feel comfortable that our 8 illegals will get sponsorship from my employer. They are 100 % good personnel just trying to take care of their families in jobs which the AMERICAN will not do and stay at it for long. Sorry, but I support doing nothing just yet! Your bosses may be handed a way for them to be right and you wrong, don't get yourself into that situation.

PORK

POPEYE

After you have finished what you feel is ethically correct and have documented your findings and measures taken, FIND A NEW STAFFING COMPANY.

Don D

My good friend Pork: The speed limit out near my house is 45. It really should be 55 and we all drive at 55 and do so safely and have for years. I've read that a study is being done by the department of transportation and they'll consider raising it. I take your advice to mean I should just lay low, grill my chops, continue to break the law, and assume that over time it will be changed and all of us who are breaking it now will one day be legal. I'm sorting through your advice. But it don't look good. Laws are laws are laws. The intention to change a law does not invalidate the law unless that action occurs. Regardless of the work ethic you perceive Hispanics to have or how I feel about the speed limit, we are neither individually nor collectively legally able to ignore the law.

marc

Good point. Based on all the advertising that has happened in Nevada, one would assume that Marijuana will soon be legal. Should I start letting employees do it in anticipation?

Don D

Certainly not! But you might discreetly pick up a couple of lids in anticipation of your trip back to the 70s...........Be sure to wait for passage of the new law.

Pork

"Dandy Don": I, respecfully, say WOW! HEAR ME CLEARILY, once I realize that I am driving 46 in a 45 MPH speed zone, I continue to roll with the clear understanding that I am breaking the law, and I fully understand the risk I am taking, while waiting for the government to come to the same realization level that I preceive to believe and 99% of those of us driving is that the highway department surveyed this section of the highway and mis-calculated the safe speed limit.

My recommendation to remain at 46 MPH remains my position. My President "Bush" is going to give us all a clear resolution to this issue! I read some of the forum participants sounding as if one should act now. I do not see doing that at this time. As all of you know we applied to sponsor 15 of our Hispanic employees in 2001 for a change in their status. We are still waiting on our government to approve these applications in order to proceed to the next step. I anticipate the our government will get good guidance and will act soon and allow our applications to go forward. In the mean time my 15 has dwindled to 8. No new Hispanics, that do not have a valid SSN and NAME havecome to our door step for employment, because they know we check and report all we discover to be illegal. one has sought re-hire action with his same illegal name and SSN and I have denied his re-employment in accordance with the law, but I am still at 46 MPH.

EAT MORE PORK, IT IS GOOD FOR THE HEART AND THE MIND!

PORK

Don D

I will gladly pay seven dollars for a chicken or five dollars for a pound of bacon rather than participate in this giant scheme of illegally utilizing low wage labor, educating our children and theirs that systems and order and law are meaningless. This may all put bucks in the pockets of the processor and grower, for the time being; but in 15 or 20 years, what do we suppose the total and lasting impact of this mindset will have become? If we do a proper "root cause analysis" we will see that the problem is low wage jobs; not loose borders, not illegal Mexicans, not Democrats or Republicans, not the lack of available American labor. And it's certainly not this fraudulent theory that the American consumer will not pay seven dollars for a chicken. Sure she will, if she wants chicken. Sorry to get off on a political soapbox. I'll try to watch that. Meanwhile, my position remains that we should obey laws, not choose which ones we want to wink at. x:-)

Pork

"Dandy Don" again I say "WOW". First, we (I) did not get into the position we are currently in because we did not violate any law. The documentation will show that we hired these employees after the State of Mississippi WIN CENTER sent them to us as valid permitted Hispanic workers. Secondly, they are not LOW WAGE PEROPLE". ONE HAS RISEN TO ASSISTANT FARM MANAGER MAKING $500.00 GROSS PER WEEK. All are well respected, and included in our work force activities without regard for their National Origin. The others make from $7.25 per hour to $9.00 per hour. While they have broken the law when the bought false documents from some greedy US citizen; we did not break the law when we hired them. We did not break the law when they all confessed and ask for our help! We did not break the law when we assisted them in the submission of an application for a an opportunity to become legal. We did not break the law when we continued to keep them employed while their application was processed for consideration.

ALL SPEED LIMITS ARE NOT SO PRECISE AS YOU MAY THINK OR ACT. I will remind you of that when I catch you travelling on Lakeland Drive during the mad rush home and the speed limit is 45 and the traffic is bumper to bumper and making 55 to 65 the further one goes out of the city.

Every one, may "U" have a Blessed day and a wonderful new year with your amnesty foreign nationals on-board!

PORK