Human Resource Professionals

MEssig

My boss has decided that for me to be more effective at my HR role, I must make decisions for discipline (including discharge) without interacting with the parties involved. If I interact with the employee or the manager, my employer believes that sends a message to someone (?) that I am trying to manage the manager because I am working with them to provide solutions. If I work with the employee involved, then I am "not allowing the managers to learn how to effectively manage people." My instructions are: "HR is black and white - go to the handbook, review the collective bargaining agreement and render an opinion." My opinion is that HR is an Art/Science because of the people element - otherwise you could hire anyone to do it - if all there is to it is following a checklist. According to my boss, all the HR managers he has worked with only process health insurance, pension, benefit forms, etc. and only make recommendations on discipline or discharge based on the "list" of items we must abide by.

For background - I cannot quit my job at this time.

Please advise. Thanks.

deniseE

It would be interesting to see your boss defend this practice in a litigation situation....he might not like the idea so much afterwards.

MEssig

I am not trying to be facicious here, so I am really telling the truth as I see it, and I am grasping for a positive way to educate him.

When I mentioned the litigation component, he said that is not for me to worry about - that is his job. Once again, he is unaware of any HR Manager having the responsibility of avoiding litigation.

My concern is twofold: 1) Cutting me out of the loop (for obvious reasons) and 2) My getting blamed for this approach when it goes sour or results in a negative employment action (which he tells me will never happen.) 3) In my view, my boss does not have a good understanding of employment law. He understands the generalities, but not the nuances and the myriad of laws/regulations we face. This is not a "hunch" I have seen this in action. This is his first role as a general manager.

At what point do I go to the Board of Directors with this?

M

Crout

Board of Directors? Is your boss the last step in your chain-of-command before the Board? This might not be as bad as it sounds. If he is empowering you to render decisions, then go ahead and do that based on sound HR practices. So when one of your managers screws up a discipline or termination I would find for the employee and give my rationale. Your role as a judge could become the venue for educating the managers.

AJ SPHR

It's my responsibility to look out for the best interests of the company, and that includes ensuring that managers are trained and adept at handling employee relations situations. Both employees and managers are encouraged to come to HR when there are problems. Managers are instructed by the company President to get me involved early on in any kind of performance or disciplinary situation to ensure employees are treated fairly, legally and equitably. I provide all the training tools I can, but to help protect the company and its employees, I want to be involved throughout any kind of disciplinary process.

My primary obligation is to the employer, which means ensuring that the employer acts in accordance with all laws and regulations, and treats its employees fairly and equitably.

mwild31

Hi MEssig

You're boss may not be as off as he sounds. HR and the profession itself has many different variations/policies/beliefs/practices/specialities, etc. For instance, it's kind of like saying, "In my experience, all baseball players wear hats." The statement is true enough & sometimes maybe even most times, that's all that's needed. However, there are times, when that assertion/belief/fact is simply not enough. A Yankee fan will tell you that yes all do wear hats, but if it's not a Yankee hat then it's not a hat. And to a Yankee fan, that too is the assertion/belief/fact. Usually, you won't change either side's position - a hat is a hat, or a Yankee hat is the only hat. Your boss has a belief about what HR is about & has given you a clear path on how he would like to have the HR function perform at your company, he has stated, when you objected to his path, that he would worry about the legal issues - it's his job. Now, since you're not the boss - you can either follow his direction or not. It doesn't sound like you can leave your current position, so I would follow his direction. You may not agree with it, so you can continue to talk to him about it, or you can go to the Board for direction, but until they take the title away from him - it's his show. Just my thoughts.

Shadowfax

Your Co./boss defines what an HR Manager does. If one or both are so un-enlightened as to see the HR Manager as limited as you relate, then, unfortunately, I think you are stuck with that position. I'm assuming your job descripiton is of no help, but even if it were, and your boss says something different, I'd just document it and go forth. I would never go over heads to the B of D except in instances of fraud, statutory violations, things of that nature. Almost no one ever appreciates that kind of activity; it smacks of disloyalty, lack of respect for the chain of command, lack of respect for your superiors - and remember, the higher up the ladder the person about whom you complain, the closer that person is to the B of D. and therefore the less likely they will even listen to your position. You are in a really tough spont, with no good way out. Do the best you can under the circumstances and look for a new position. If you go to B of D and lose your job, your prospects of finding one with the record of going over your bosses head, is not good. I wish you well.

Don D

I'm in agreement with MWild and Shadow. Sadly, they describe your dilemma perfectly. It's not sad that they have accurately described it. It's sad that that is the predicament. I venture a guess that you will not in your lifetime be able to change the manager's mind about this. Nor will you be able to win a pi**ing contest with him involving the board of directors. Nor can you ignore his direction and do things a better way. Nor are you able to quit your job or survive if fired. So, what's left is what those two have suggested. We could go on for days about the 'rightness' of your concept of HR and the 'wrongness' of his (and I am wholly on your side with your thoughts); however, at the end of those days you would be in the same Vlasic Pickle jar you are now in. My advice is to think it over long and hard for two nights and decide if you can adapt to the parameters your boss has given you or if you cannot. If you stay I assume it will be only until you can move on. Surely you will not give up your values and goals. If you leave, be sure you have a landing strip in front of you before takeoff. He will no doubt sense your total frustration and mistake that for lack of team-play on your part and he'll confuse the smoke coming out of your ears as 'attitude', so don't mess around too long polishing up your resume.

PS: I don't know how long you've been around the Forum. You may know that my opinions and posts are frank and to the point, but honest and sometimes others accuse me of being blunt, rude and terse. I hope you will view my remarks to you as honest and those I would make to my own daughter. Good luck.

FHR

Don D, I've noticed your little disclaimers as of late. Still stinging from the forum police deletes? Hey! that rhymes.
MEssing, I am so completely familiar with your situation that I sent you an obscenely long email addressing the issue. Also I agree with Don D. You will probably never change his mind.
Cristina

MEssig

Thank you for the professional advice. You are right - you never go over someone's head with sucess, I wouldn't like it done to me, so I shouldn't entertain doing it myself.

No- I haven't been using the forum too long, but I like the advice - it is professional and relative! And yes - frankness helps.

Okay - my job is to be a professional and work with what I have, until I find an opportunity that values the HR role. I would give the same advice to anyone else, so I appreciate the reminder!

blw

As far as your concern about getting blamed later, I would email your boss with an outline of how he wants you to handle situations and ask for him to verify that is the scope of your responsibility in discipline, etc.

Then keep several copies of his reply email!

JM in ATL

I would also recommend that you draw up your job description in a detailed format. Give a brief summary of what each task encounters and have your boss sign it.

I am fortunate enough to work with a comapny and a boss who will let me take my position to any level I want to finally stop at, however, I understand how it can be frustrating to be in a position where you feel as if your hands are tied.

I hope that for your sake, while employed, you find a way to live harmoniously with your boss and his decisions.

=================================
BTW Don - nice disclaimer. Looks like I missed a good debate. Shoot!

Paul in Cannon Beach

Thats a great question and I am sure you are not alone in your dilemma.

All the above advice is great. I would just add that you shouldn't give up the hope that you will eventually be invited to be more involved. Prepare yourself for that opportunity. Stay positive and earn the trust of your boss. Make yourself so valuable for your insight and experience that only a fool wouldn't invite you to the table.

I don't think its too idealistic to think that you could be the person who changes how the role of HR is viewed in your organization. Don't make that your goal. Just keep being valuable and it just might happen.

sohappytobe

It has been my experience that to adhere to sound HR standards sometimes, as in my case, you must be ready to be released from your duties, especially when you are dealing with superiors who are in the dark pertaining to the role that HR is to play if done efficiently. Moreover, if they are ignorant (of the many, many) employee laws and standards to which they must adhere, then they don't even realize the potential liability involved, must less the danger of it occurring, and therefore do not "appreciate" the role of the HR manager. In other words, HR managers are very dispensable to the ignorant. As for going to the Board, good luck. It has also been my experience that going over heads straight to the board will cause heads to role, and unless you're different from most, it'll be yours. Good Luck!

mbeam

Does your new manager have some prior experience before this role? Sounds to me like he's veering so far one was due to a past encounter with perhaps and HR area that was biased. He's trying to overcompensate by making it more black & white. Does he come from more of a financial background?

If so, may want to appeal to his sense of saving money. By interacting with all associates (management and non), you have the ability in HR to head many issues off at the pass thus saving time (i.e. more productive workforce) and money (less attorney bills & lawsuits to respond to).

Balloonman

Today is the first time I have seen this thread. Do what he has directed. After it backfires and you do not term some folks, because a supervisor screwed up, he may come around some........
If not after the first lawsuit he will.....ROFL.
Every company / boss has their own approach.
My $0.02 worth.
DJ The Balloonman