Scrutinizing I-9 Documents

System

When Justice and the INS first rolled out the I-9, the state agency I worked for had the authority to issue an I-9 on anyone we referred to an employer's job opening. If the worker was hired, the employer already had his I-9. This was a free service we provided to encourage the employer to use us to find workers. All state Employment Security networks had this authority. We all had books issued by INS that had tons of photos of legitimate and illegitimate documents and clues as to how we should put the documents under scrutiny to determine validity. The books were provided on request to any employer and were available from INS for a phone call. I still have those books. I'm hearing conflicting comments in personnel association meetings and would like to hear your opinion. One side of the aisle is saying the employer's rep has absolutely no authority to question the documents' legitimacy or inquire into their validity. The other side of the aisle is saying, absolutely, the employer has an obligation to at least take a close look at the documents and question or reject those which appear suspect. What say you and have you heard from reliable sources that there is any liability issue if you do pull out the magnifying glass? It is my intention to stay on the side of scrutiny unless something proves to me the error of my ways. x:=|

Hunter1

Since when I fill out an I-9, I sign the statement: "I attest, under penalty of perjury, that I have examined the document(s) presented by the above-named employee, that the above-listed document(s) appear to be genuine ...", I believe that I AM under the obligation to determine the document's validity to the best of my ability.

durasupreme

A few years ago an investigator with the INS came to our site to provide some training on what to look for in recognizing potentially invalid documents. What an eye opener! He had samples of "bad" Resident Alien and Social Security cards, and gave us some very specific examples of "clues" that might signal invalid documents. Ever since, I've looked very closely at documents, and over the past few years have confirmed my suspicions on more than a dozen. I was very surprised how just a little "scrutiny" on our part could keep us from employing someone with invalid documents. Approximately six months ago I attended an I-9 workshop presented by an attorney, and he stressed the importance of "looking closely" at the documents provided also, and also gave examples of "potential frauds". I too will continue to stay on the side of scrutiny.

TN HR

The law is specific on this and states that an employer "must accept any document(s) (from List A) or combination of documents (one from List B and one from List C) presented by the individual which reasonably appear on their face to be genuine and to relate to the person presenting them".

Furthermore, it also goes on to say that refusing to honor documents under these guidelines constitutes unfair immigration-related employment practices.

The law also allows for establishing a Good Faith Defense with respect to any charges or alleged charges of knowingly hiring unauthorized workers.

My gut feeling, and the one that I have always applied to this area has been to do just as the law says. If I am dilligent and apply these guidelines equitably across the board then I have satisfied my legal requirement.

blw

Having been through an INS audit where I was subpoened and had to report to the federal courthouse for what felt like an interogation, I look closely also. I had one employee about a year ago bring in a SS card that didn't look right - the ink colors were weird. I faxed to SSS for verification and it was a "No match". She had said she had gotten married, or divorced, etc. and brought me another card with name change. Resent to SSA, still a no-match.

It pays to look closely and check them!

Don D

In response to TN HR: That section of the regs which state an employer is obligated to accept any ID presented as long as it is one of the listed forms of ID, doesn't mean that you MUST accept it on its face. What that means is that you cannot reject the ID simply because you'd rather have another form, such as a Birth Certificate. That section of the regs does not address scrutiny, other than to say 'that appear legitimate'. I'm still bothered by my associates who have said it is not legal to scrutinize. I also had a fellow in here last Friday interpreting for a Mexican who I was saying Sayonara (sp) to because of a mismatch. The man works for Catholic Charities and he was adamant that we cannot go beyond simply viewing and copying the document. I am sure he was schooled in totally wrong practices. This is the same interpreter we have called in for this employee on numerous occasions for translation. I almost fell out of my chair when he said to me, "I've known Miguel was illegal ever since you hired him, but it's my obligation to remain nuetral." This is the guy whose organization 'encouraged' us to hire these people and now he admits knowing they were illegal. But, on the positive side, he did tell me that if you look with a magnifier, just under the signature line on the SS card, you will see in very tiny print, unseen to the naked eye, the words Social Security Administration. I haven't tried it, but may start looking for that!

mwild31

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-15-03 AT 10:59AM (CST)[/font][p]I've been through the INS audit & as part of our agreement with INS not to subject us to fines, had to attend a 4 hour briefing on I-9 procedures. During this briefing we spent an hour looking at real examples of false documents - some were blatant, others we not. The INS agents were very specific in what they said, "If the documents appear on their face not to be genuine, you must not accept them." Which led to a great discussion in which all of us HR types asked how in this world we would become the police and document fraud experts, for which there was little response, except this key, very important point: Institute in your organization a policy whereby EVERY new hire has their SSN number checked with SSA. This was the consensus of the group & it's what I've instituted since - and it's worked 100% of the time. So, morale of the story - accept the documents and verify the applicants SSN via SSA.

ps - don't forget that you still have to view ORIGINAL doc's - not copies or laminated social security cards.

TN HR

>In response to TN HR: That section of the regs which state an employer
>is obligated to accept any ID presented as long as it is one of the
>listed forms of ID, doesn't mean that you MUST accept it on its face.

I agree, and if you will reread my post you will see that I addressed that. My point is that you are required to accept the document, if, "on it's face, reasonably appears to be genuine". You draw your own guidance from there. I for one, am not, nor do I have document experts on staff. Furthermore, over the years I have seen legitimate I-551's with pictures that didn't "look right". I would also advice against the magnifying glass on SSN card signature lines, UNLESS you verify this to be a true security feature AND you examine Joe Smith's who handed you his SSN Card and Driver's License as well as Carlos Martinez who gives you the SSN card plus an INS document alike.

Leslie

I have one employee who goes to INS updates about every other year. We were audited and got one freebie. From this point forward it could cost us big time, so we watch them like hawks.

ritaanz

I check very closely all ORIGINAL documents presented for the I9. Here is my dilemma. Here in AZ when a new driver's license is issued, it expires at the age of 65. So if you get your license at the age of say, 20, and you are now 40ish, the picture on the license is very different. So, the IDs presented are valid but is John Smith really John Smith or his friend?

Now there is noise about allowing illegals to apply AND receive a valid driver's license. What next??

Don D

I pulled out my Atlas. And just as I suspected, the geography has not changed.....you are very close to California, geographically, and perhaps politically.

ritaanz

Ouch! That hurt. x:'(

cebudragonlady

And since the embattled Governor of California just signed into law a bill allowing illegal aliens to have driver's licenses, does this form of ID become suspect?

Chari

crawfod

For a good description of I-9 instructions, go to the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services at [url]http://www.bcis.gov/graphics[/url]. Then click on "How Do I", then "FAQ", then "Employment Eligibility Verification", then "About Form I-9". In general they seem to be saying that employers are held to a reasonableness standard when it comes to verifying the documents.

Pork

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-15-03 AT 11:56AM (CST)[/font][p]Dandy Don's Twin:
I have for sometime in several different organizations used the JOB SERVICE WIN CENTERS to recruit, interview, and hire employees from the unemployed market. Previously, the WIN CENTERS provided the I-9 certified as you stated. The WIN centers provided the signed certification on a embossed seal of the Great State of Mississippi which I would then attached the unsigned I-9 processed in our enrollment package, and a written statement across the area for document identification which stated see JOB SERVICE CERTIFICATION AND FILES. The job service and win centers found they were no more proficient at catching illegal foreign nationals than we were, and they have stopped providing any I-9.

As I have posted before, we are now BLACK BALLED ON THE STREETS for foreign nationals to seek employment with our company because we are on-line with SSA and can check a social security number and name registration in about 5 minutes, and the foreign national knows it. (It takes me that long because I am old and these computers are almost to much FOR ME.)

I have provided A strong recommendation to SSA about this test to open it up and go national. The sooner it is spread across our country the sooner the illegal immigrants will leave our country for "lack of working for high wages". All of you will likewise be BLACK BALLED ON THE STREETS! Oh what a glorious place to be for I-9 purposes.

PORK

HRsage

I've dealt with quite a few questionable documents. I'm the only person who does all the newhire paperwork and I've learned a few tips on spotting false documents. The signature line on the SS Card does say social security on it. If you have really good eyes you don't even need a magnifying glass to see it if the card is in good condition. Another easy trick is to feel the pillars on the front side of the card. They are raised on the paper and you can feel them with your fingernail. It's a more subtle way of checking if the person in question is there in front of you. Also if you make copies of the newer cards you should be able to see VOID in the copy. It's harder with older cards because they didn't have the same security features as the newer ones do. I figure if they are going to put the security features in the cards, then we should at least know what to look for. Many times it's really easy to spot a fake card. Usually the type is wrong or the name is slanted or something just isn't right.
The false imigration cards are harder for me to spot, but they are also harder to get fake ones for, so I don't get a lot of those.

The best thing to do is verify the numbers on everybody like Pork does, but we don't do that yet for a number of reasons so I'm left doing what I can for now.
And it doesn't matter who is sitting in front of me. If the card does not look valid or is laminated, I'll tell them I can't accept it and ask for a different document.

Don D

And since the embattled Governor of California just signed into law a bill allowing illegal aliens to have driver's licenses, does this form of ID become suspect?
Chari

Chari: I don't know if the document would be suspect; however, I do know that anyone who votes for the current governor WOULD BE SUSPECT. If what he is doing does not meet the definition of prostitute, I don't know what would.

mwild31

You can call SSA's 1-800 number and check employees SSN's right now for FREE. This is infinitely less risker than turning down what may or may not be false documents. I don't want to mess around with the potential for myself or my staff to face discrimination charges - based on our (potentially) subjective decisions/assumptions about document authenticity. It's quick, it's free and it's just a phone call away.

Don D

What's that number. I'm going to call it and see if it's as simple as you indicate. I hope it is. I wonder if the first thing I hear will be, "Listen carefully to our menu. Our options have changed."

ritaanz

Don, the number to verify SS # is 1-800-772-6270. It really is painless. Be a good boy today.

TN HR

Don:

It's 800-772-6270 and, actually, I had an initial hold time of less than a minute before a live person came on the line! I provided our EIN, business name, and the employee's (in this case my own) name, SSN and DOB used. They gave me a rote "the information provided matches our records" line.

Then, I called back and again, using my own information, changed the SSN to my wife's. They told me to have the employee report to the nearest SSA office due to a mismatch. They wouldn't say anything more.

WORKS FOR ME!!!!!

Gene

Pork

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-16-03 AT 10:33AM (CST)[/font][p]MWILD31: PLEASE PUBLISH THE 800 NUMBER; THE ON-LINE SERVICE PROVIDES TWO BIG ADVANTAGES TO THE TELEPHONE 1) ONE IS RECORD COPY OF THE INQUIRY AND THE PRINTED RESULT FOR THE FILE. 2) IS THE ABILITY TO LIST BUNCHES OF SSN/NAMES/DOB/SEX, WHICH WILL BE RESEARCHED AND RESPONDED TO OVER NIGHT.

WE HAVE 23 DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS AND WE WERE ABLE TO DO THE INQUIRY BY DEPARTMENT, WHICH HELPED US DEAL WITH THE DISRUPTION OF NOTIFICATION OF A REQUIREMENT TO SUSPEND X-EE WHILE HE/SHE GOES TO SSA TO FIX THE MISMATCH.

EVERYONE OUT THERE SHOULD GET AFTER THE CLARIFICATION OF MIS-MATCH NAMES AND SSN BY WHATEVER MEANS YOU MAY HAVE AVAILABLE TO YOU.

PORK

THANKS SOMEONE DID IT BEFORE I COULD GET MY OLD FINGERS AND SLOW MISSSISSSIPPPI MINDDDDDD TO WORKINNNNGGG!

mwild31

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-16-03 AT 07:06PM (CST)[/font][p]See Don - it works! x:-) Our number is different than the other one's mentioned, but it works the same way (I wonder if our 800 is different according to region?) It's 1-800-772-1213. In my area, we actually have to go down to the SSA main computer center (Seattle) for large volume requests, so I can't wait for them to set it up the way PORK describes!

Pork

MWILD31: It extremely valuable, the sooner the better for all of us! PORK

Nicole

>[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-16-03 AT
>10:33 AM (CST)[/font]
>
>MWILD31: PLEASE PUBLISH THE 800 NUMBER; THE ON-LINE SERVICE PROVIDES
>TWO BIG ADVANTAGES TO THE TELEPHONE 1) ONE IS RECORD COPY OF THE
>INQUIRY AND THE PRINTED RESULT FOR THE FILE. 2) IS THE ABILITY TO LIST
>BUNCHES OF SSN/NAMES/DOB/SEX, WHICH WILL BE RESEARCHED AND RESPONDED
>TO OVER NIGHT.
>

Pork - You say the online service is better............

Can you share the web site address where you do this please. I have looked all over the SSA site and even signed up for their Business Services Online to see if I could gain access to it or find, bit no such luck.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Pork

Nicole: You are properly enrolled in the SSA, but this program is still a nation wide tested of selected employers. When I sign in I go to the line services list and select "SSN verification". Once in, I can do one or 10 at a time and get an immediate response. There is another selection just below this one which allows for a multitude of selections with an overnight verification and response. We used this one to verify by department 100% of our employees.

I have provided my test survey and highly recommended the SSA go nation wide for all employers as soon as physically possible

In the mean time I have during this postings days gone to the SSA 800 telephone number and found satisfaction with the verification of one name and SSN with a human voice who provided I'm sure the input into the same verification on-line system. Once I got on line with the service person she verified my company name and Fed ID number and took the information on the individual; I could hear her typing and in about the same amount of time it takes me to enter a inquiry, she stated verified and have a nice day and was gone.

You might attempt a contact to SSA over the contact or customer service line and request an opportunity to enter the test for your section of the country and business. There is some paperwork to enter and a signed promise not to abuse the system for mistreatment of the data bank.

GOOD LUCK

PORK

Don D

Seems to me this would be a simple priority item for Homeland Security/SSA to get implemented nationwide immediately. Why would they continue to D**K around with it? A simple verification database would easily pay for itself in the hours saved not having to be wasted on all the mismatch legwork the government and employers have to do after a mismatch is found on a worker. It's like a condom: put it on upfront and you won't have as much to worry about later. I know, I have strange analogies.

Pork

"Dandy Don": Now you are deginning to write like your TWIN!!

MY PRAYERS ARE ESPECIALLY STONG THIS DATE FOR YOUR NATY FINGERS!

PORK

Nicole

Thanks Pork for taking the time to clarify that for me. I'll give them a call and see what they saw.

Hope you have a great weekend