[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 09-03-03 AT 10:48AM (CST)[/font][p]It appears we aren't answering the new member's (Kent) question. I assume he is looking for guidance as to how he might proceed in the development, or at least exploration, of a policy at his company. I don't think he was anticipating the answers he's gotten, and I'm as guilty as the rest. It's turned into a poll of how many HR Managers have what types of body 'art'. My input was intended to say that I think it's almost impossible to craft a policy that addresses such things as 'excessive' or that gets into definitions such as 'body part' or 'how big is big', or how short is too short. How do those of you who DO have such policies manage them? Banks? Healthcare? Professional offices? Municipal offices? Schools? Non-profits? Conservatively managed operations? (edit)And I notice that I'm in PA, which gives Pennsylvania posters a certain level of heartburn. I'm in MS.
You're right Don D (as usual!!!). My current co. does not have a policy & has not had any problems to date. In a former life, I worked in HR at a casino. The rule there was - no tattoos that show, no visible piercings in men, women may have a maximum of two in each ear - no where else (visible, that is). Those that had tattoos covered with Ace bandages or Band-Aids & removed any prohibited piercings. Those that didn't comply, didn't work there.
I admit, I'm still on Holiday. x:-8. What I meant to say kent. Go to the HR Document 911 forum and look into past topics. You will find one from May of last year that might give you a good start. Is that better Don? I will behave in the future! x;-)
Earlier I posted that our policy clearly states that ee that have exposure to customers must cover their body art. I just wanted to add the most of our employees are not visibly exposed to customers because customers are not allowed to wonder in our buildings. To enter our general working areas, someone would need to pass thru three level of security.
Here on the oral front we just say..."no visible tatoos or body piercings-earings in ear lobes only. This keeps the earings from up and down ears. We had a few tongue piercings, some of the pts did not care for this. As long as I cant see it then it does not exist. My gay personnel does not wish to wear earings so I have not worried about the public on this one. I would prob just let that go.
Our policy states that radical departures from conventional dress or personal grooming and hygiene standards are not permitted. Also, tattoos and body piercing (other than earrings) should not be visible.
When I have applicants with visible tattoos, I don't seriously consider them for any position where they would meet the public or the board of directors.
We have a very conservative client base, and feel it's in our best interest to hire conservative employees.
>Our policy states that radical departures from conventional dress or >personal grooming and hygiene standards are not permitted.
Devil's advocate here. How might one, upon questioning, advise questioners wanting a description of 'radical' and 'conventional'? Obviously the employer's standard, as stated on response to the question, would suffice, or else. I agree with the standard "You dress and appear according to our standard, as defined by the company, or we have no job here for you, end of discussion".
I agree with Don. We don't have a problem with body art - being strictly a manufacturing facility, it really doesn't matter. But, we did fire a director a couple years ago after he went downhill following getting his ears pierced. But more to the point, a year ago our corporate offices relaxed the dress code because they could/would not enforce it in their facility. Used to be muscle shirts were not allowed, then the restriction was removed. When my boss was visiting and we were eating breakfast in the company cafeteria he saw a rather obese male ee wearing a muscle shirt and was offended by his appearance. He wanted me to tell the ee he had to cover up. I refused because my boss was the one who changed to policy and I had nothing to support me. It can be a no-win situation.
I would say that the definitions of "radical" and "conventional" are much the same as "pornographic." You know it when you see it. If I am in an interview and I can see a tattoo that means that person doesn't get the job because conventional, professional dress would tend to cover a small, more conventional tattoo.
I announced at a managers' meeting two years ago that the company would pay for any tattoos of our logo. This past June, at a management retreat, one of the managers fooled me with one of those temporary tattoos.
Fascinating discussion with, as usual, a great deal of wisdom. Most places I have been followed the dichotomy many of you express: Customer contact = no or very limited tattooing (and, yes, mostly dealt with at hire), and No contact = they could have just walked out of the circus tent, so long as they are good at their job.
As I hear people talk about themselves getting and almost getting tatoos, I keep hearing the Jimmy Buffet line about "a permanent reminder of a temporary emotion" (which happened to be his ma's line to her granddaughter about getting a tattoo).
Good retort Steve. Can almost visualize you with the Marguerita and stuffed parrot on your shoulder. A permanent reminder of a temporary emotion...Almost like the old adage, 'A lifetime of pain for twenty minutes of pleasure'. Again I recall the beautiful young princesses with their lives fully ahead of them, sporting a two inch imbedded ink-chain around their necks. Would that they could peel it off or had they not taken the dare to begin with that night at half past eleven, slinging gravel, sliding up into the parking lot of 'Tatoos By Squinch'. But, I digress. The real question is, "Where's yours?"
Thanks (??!!) for asking. My permanent-reminders-of-temporary-emotions are many, but largely not visible. Unless you count the 6" scar on the side of my knee, but that is a story for another time, another place. It certainly has no standing in a discussion of art, body or othewise.
Warmly,
Steve Mac
Steve McElfresh, PhD Principal HR Futures 408.605.1870
Comments
When I have applicants with visible tattoos, I don't seriously consider them for any position where they would meet the public or the board of directors.
We have a very conservative client base, and feel it's in our best interest to hire conservative employees.
>personal grooming and hygiene standards are not permitted.
Devil's advocate here. How might one, upon questioning, advise questioners wanting a description of 'radical' and 'conventional'? Obviously the employer's standard, as stated on response to the question, would suffice, or else. I agree with the standard "You dress and appear according to our standard, as defined by the company, or we have no job here for you, end of discussion".
Customer contact = no or very limited tattooing (and, yes, mostly dealt with at hire), and
No contact = they could have just walked out of the circus tent, so long as they are good at their job.
As I hear people talk about themselves getting and almost getting tatoos, I keep hearing the Jimmy Buffet line about "a permanent reminder of a temporary emotion" (which happened to be his ma's line to her granddaughter about getting a tattoo).
Warmly,
Steve
Steve McElfresh, PhD
Principal
HR Futures
408.605.1870
Thanks (??!!) for asking. My permanent-reminders-of-temporary-emotions are many, but largely not visible. Unless you count the 6" scar on the side of my knee, but that is a story for another time, another place. It certainly has no standing in a discussion of art, body or othewise.
Warmly,
Steve Mac
Steve McElfresh, PhD
Principal
HR Futures
408.605.1870