Company Policies

KP68

If a company (not mine!) tells an employee that they "don't hand out policy manuals to employees" what happens if an employee is fired for "excessive absences" for example? I know that at-will employment is a factor here, but what if the employee is not aware of the 'excessive absence' policy? Could this be a wrongful termination?

Also, is it a legal issue if they don't hand them out?

Just curious as to what your thoughts are on this.

System

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-29-03 AT 11:54AM (CST)[/font][p]I would think that if there are no policy handouts by the company, that something would have at least been covered in orientation at the time of hire, or maybe at the first counseling session for being absent. If not, then there may be recourse. People cannot just assume that ee's know company policies by osmosis.

KP68

So it gets more interesting....what about 'retaliation' towards the employee related to asking repeatedly for a policy manual? Anyone ever had to deal with this? What position would this put the company AND the employee in??

Hunter1

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-29-03 AT 11:36AM (CST)[/font][p]Not so interesting. There is no requirement that I'm aware of to have a 'policy manual', therefore, it's no big deal if the company doesn't hand one out. If I had an employee who repeatedly asked me if we were going to paint the building pink on alternate Tuesdays, sooner or later I'd fire them. No rule about asking, no manual, no retaliation. Just tired of them asking a question I wasn't going to answer or had answered and they didn't like my answer. I'd probably warn them of the consequences of their actions and then follow up.

Hatchetman

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-29-03 AT 12:00PM (CST)[/font][p]As others have noted, there is no federal requirement specifically for emplyers to have a policy manual, written policies, or a handbook. It is possible that a state's law may require something. However, the absence of those things does make it much more difficult for an emplyer to manage it's workforce. And, if EEOC or US DOL comes along on an investigaiton fo a complain or an audit, the absence of written policies may exacerbate any negatives that the agencies may find against the employer.

In disciplining or terminating an employee, a critical issue is whether the emplyee was put on notice about the employer's policy, requirement, expectation that aren't reasonably expected to be known (e.g., using telephone for personal business as compared to shooting your supervisor) and the consequences for violating it. A policy minimally does that.

In the absence of a written policy that can be referred to by the superviosr and reviewed by the employee, it becomes a matter of individual notice issued by a supervisor or manager to a particular employee when a problem first begins. Thus, if there is no policy on tardiness, for example, it becomes very important that the supervisor bring to the employee's attention the unaccpetability of tardiness, what donstiutes tardiness, and the consequences if the tardiness continues (these things should be done even if there is a policy, however). Even in "at will" employment, for an employer to fire an employee for engaging in prohibited behavior, without ever having put the employee on reasonable notice of the unacceptability of that behavior and the consequences for engaging in it, smacks of capriciousness and unfairness. It is possible that the employee could get the discharge overturned in a wrongful termination suit.

Regarding retaliation, usually that refers to a "whistleblower" reporting "possible wrongdoing" to an appropriate governmental agency or an employee's use of a procedure that is established by the employer -- e.g., a grievance procedure. Repeatedly seeking a policy manual which is known not to exist is not generally protected activity under various federal and state laws on retaliation (but perhaps it could be in some states).

JulieP

I would say that without a written policy, you would also have to look at what they have done in the past. Have other employees had this many absences? What did they do? But, I would think, even without a written policy, or especially without one, that an employee should receive a warning before being fired.

Sandy

I would look to see if the employee was disciplined prior to the termination and notified of their actions. Even with a company policy book, not all termination reasons or exact requirements are listed. However what does need to occur is notification made to the employee. Both policies & discipline actions need to be administered consistently and be documented appropriately.

dynamite9551

my first questions would be how can an employee be fired for excessive absenteeism if there is no guideline of what is considered excessive? any disciplinary issue with this company could be grounds for a whole bunch of legal issues. (i'm glad i don't work there). If I were an employee considering employment with this company i think i would ask how they handle disciplinary issues such as attendance, abseenteeism, terminations. are employees given any type of employment agreements? how do employees know when they're walking a thin line, etc.

Good luck to this company!

KP68

dynamite9551: You hit the nail on the head. I guess I was having a hard time putting it into words, but that is exactly my point...how do they KNOW what excessive is? How do they know their definition of "Unexcused"?
That is why I would be concerned because there is no initial definition.
Any other thoughts now that it's clarified?

LFernandes

How much was "excessive"? What is excessive to one may not be excessive to another. To me anything over 10 days may be excessive....


LFernandes

Rockie

There is no legal requirement to have an employee handbook, etc. Some companies are run very successfully on little or no policies. Usually these companies employ very hard working, self motivated people that you usually do not have to hand hold.

Most companies, however, feel the need for guidance for employees and repercussions when they don't follow the "rules". I remember the days when an employee handbook was unheard of - you simply came to work, did your job and didn't cause trouble. "Excessive" absences was when you did not show up for work and you had better have a darn good excuse for why you weren't there. Your boss was the determining factor on whether this was a good excuse or not. If you failed to show up or called in too many times (and this was the boss's call),it was his perogative to determine if he retained you.

Now, the more rules/policies you have, the more fodder it is for employees to look for loopholes to get through them and thus, more rules to counteract this....anyway I digress.

To answer your question about how you determine if an absence is "excessive", I would think a supervisor would have had to give a disciplinary of some type, even if verbal stating to an employee that he has been out too much and expect the behavior to be corrected. In the absence of this, "excessive" is open to interpretation by the employee.