pregnancy

Hi,

I work for a not-for-profit agency that teaches children about self-esteem, character development and other related topics. One of our teachers recently got pregnant and our boss is thinking of terminating her because teachers under this company are to serve as role models for the children.

The argument is: If a teacher becomes pregnant, how can she tell the children to be careful or teach about safe sex?

Considering the nature of the business, do we have grounds for the above termination? What are our options knowing that we cannot move her to an administrative assistance position for she lacks skills for this position, and there are no other vacant slots?

Comments

  • 23 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • WHAAAAAT! Do these sames rules apply to males who go out and impregnate women indiscriminately? Unless your boss is willing to cough up a bunch of dough for violation of Title VII, I would say he is fresh out of luck in this regard.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-22-03 AT 12:35PM (CST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-22-03 AT 12:33 PM (CST)[/font]

    Maybe she chose to get pregnant! This sounds pretty scary to me.

    PS She can teach the children about safe sex the same way she did before she was pregnant.
  • Does safe sex mean never becoming pregnant? I do believe one leads to the other.
    Safe sex pertains to preventing disease and getting pregnant when one does not want to. But even couples who don't want children and are using contraception may get pregnant. No contraception is 100%. My guess is that this guy needs to go to a sex education course.

  • There was a case exactly like this within the past few years. School fired teacher for pregnancy out of wedlock but made no attempt to judge male teachers by this standard. As I recall, the discrimination lawsuit went badly for the school. If you subscribe to our Employment Law Letter in your state, you can search for an article about the case in the subscribers area of this website.

    James Sokolowski
    HRhero.com
  • bulldozer: Tell us more about the business, tell us more about the teacher, is she married, I assume she is female, Tell us more about the age of the students, Tell us more about the community!!! Something just doesn't smell right here, and it ain't pig poop! Your General Manager must be in total control of a not-for-profit organization with no board of directors or no concern for making a major mistake! Does he run around on long legs with his head stuck in the ground? If so I got the picture. Bulldozer use your blade and scrap this guy out of here!

    PORK
  • I had to laugh at your comment, "I assume she is female"...funny!
  • My jaw just about hit the ground on this one. Being pregnant indicates a woman cannot teach children about values?

    I am in the childcare industry, (for profit) and we pride ourselves on the quality of education and loving care we provide the 2500 children entrusted to our care. In addition, at any given time, at least 5% of our mainly female workforce is pregnant. Without checking our records, I'd guess about half of them are unmarried. All our employees, pregnant or not, married or single, are positive role models for the children. Those that don't behave as good role models don't last very long.

    I sincerely doubt our parents (paying clients) would question a single pregnant employees' ability to educate and care for their children based on her reproductive status. I wonder whether your boss is truly concerned about perception from outside the company or is basing his statement on his own beliefs.

    I think everyone else here gave some great responses and it sounds like you suspected termination might not be appropriate already, but I just had to get on my soap box for a sec! x:o I wish you luck. I can understand your concern!
  • This smells like two things to me. One, your boss is trying to impose his personal beliefs at the work place which leads to number two, a violation of title VII. I can not believe that your boss would even consider this. Let him know this and document your conversation with him to cover your self in case he ignores your advice.
  • This just smells like one thing to me. A big steaming pile of something that you don't want to step in. The others are right, don't term, document your suggestion to cover yourself should your ignorant boss decide otherwise. Good luck.
  • Out on my usual limb - I can understand the concerns of the manager. I can see the reality of certain ages of impressionable minds questioning (silently) and being somewhat confused (silently) by a 'ROLE MODEL' instructing them on the soundness of 'saying no' and 'waiting until (whatever)' or respecting yourself and not having sex outside marriage.....then the teacher seems to have a basketball under her skirt and the kids know she's dating several people and unmarried and on and on. My comments are based solely on impressionable minds of very young people and mixed messages and their inherent confusion and what that does in the overall education process with the children. But, of course it is illegal to terminate based on such concerns. What if a Nun gets pregnant.....wait, I forgot - they 'can't get the disease because they are never exposed to it'.

    I can remember when girls who got pregnant in high school (or Jr. Hi), they disappeared from school, even from town. Now they're cheerleaders. My mother told me that when she was pregnant, the rule of thumb in the South back then was that the woman 'stayed at home' and rarely, if ever, did she go out in public. WOW! Now you can watch 'em get pregnant on the internet and watch the delivery on the medical channel. Have I digressed or what?
  • If the children know who and how many the teacher is dating then questions about the pregnancy should be the last question your asking about. Even when I was a teenager in HS, I never knew the marital status of my teachers or who they might be dating and if one of them was pregnant we never knew the who the father was. Nor should I have known. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
  • Scott: I wasn't referring to 'sin' or the judgement of people old enough to judge. I was referring to children who are confused who know just enough about pregnancy to think they understand how it happens. And, who are drilled perhaps at home, in church or at that same school about certain things kids get drilled about. Kids are observant (even at the high school level) to see their teachers dating or being escorted or picked up by significant others and they also are aware of, more than we know, who is married or not. My concern here is for the children who are trying to assimilate information, who are confused by signals we send them, intentionally or not.

    On a related note, I heard on talk radio last week a young man talking about a book he wrote at age 17. It was about the damage the Clinton's have done to youth by the signals and messages the children have received. The children, in the writer's estimation, were drilled at home and in "the village that it takes to raise them x:-)" that certain morals, practices, behaviors, etc were important and necessary for good outcomes. Then, according to the writer, now in medical school, they saw all the good fortune that befell or accrued to the Clintons and the children balanced that against what they had been told was 'necessary' and confusion led to doubt which led to parroting behaviors on the children's part. According to the writer, many young people disregarded entirely what they had been taught because "It must not be true, look at them". I think the book is titled something like, "What Bill Clinton Did To The Children in The Village - from The Eyes of A 17 Year Old". I see this young man's dilemma in a similar manner to the daycare children confused by the new basketball under the skirt of the teacher. Sorry, this is philosophical rambling on my part, not HR stuff.
  • My comment about sin wasn't directed at you Don, that was for the Boss man. I respect your opinion but I think if she is terminated, it could turn out to be a nice early retirement for this pregnant teacher with all of the money she'll get from her settlement. My opinion is that most confused teenagers are well aware of where babies come from and they are more concerned about their peers, rather than their teachers. I think this boss is more concerned with what the parents will think and disguissing it as his concern for what the teenagers will think. I think the boss would send a terrible message to the teenagers by firing her. He will be telling them that if they get pregnant that their contribution to society is no longer valuable.
  • Just a thought- I would hope that the Boss has arranged for the day care centers to have PLENTY of Employment Practices Liability insurance on hand. If not, firing the teacher based upon pregnancy could cost money, and other teachers their jobs as other centers may have to close to save money for legal costs and judgments.

    Chari


  • If this writer is now in medical school, apparently the message wasn't that bad or confusing. This is a society issue. We as parents think that outside influences have a huge impact on our children when infact, a good parent has the absolute most influence of all. As the saying goes, we all grow up to be like our parents! If this were not the case we would likely grow up to be self absorbed, drugged out, rock stars. For some reason I don't think many teenagers actually idolized the Clintons.
  • As the
    >saying goes, we all grow up to be like our parents! If this were not
    >the case we would likely grow up to be self absorbed, drugged out,
    >rock stars.


    My parents were drugged out rock stars, so how did I happen to not be that? Just kidding of course. My parents would not let me have a certain couple of boys over in high school because their hair touched their collar. I agree wholeheartedly that it would be both illegal and stupid to fire the teacher. Just presenting another dimension in the catch 22 for the school, as they might see it. You are probably right about the principal. He is doing what his grandmother would have expected him to do.

  • Besides the whole debate above....on another note I just want to point out that the employee's pregnancy, marital status, orientation, etc. is no one's business but her own. Not the employer, not the kids, not the kid's parents, etc. Also, many women (and men) CHOOSE to become single parents by adoption, artificial insemination, surrogacy, etc.
    Cinderella
  • I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, there are still authority figures who think it is their business to be in everyone elses! Many will not learn their lesson until they are slapped with a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
  • Send me your text for teaching 3 and 4 year olds about insemination and surrogacy. They might know about insemination if they live on a farm, but otherwise, the pg teacher, in spite of her personal rights to personal freedoms, will find herself quite baffled by questions from the little wide-eyed, mush-brained, rug rats sitting at her feet, begging for her touch. Perhaps she can simply say, S*** happens and let that be that.
  • Now that, Don, could certainly get her fired.
  • That's just my point...she doesn't have to talk about her personal situation with anyone, the boss, parents, kids, no one. She could have been abducted by aliens and implanted with ET's embryo for all anyone knows, or probably cares for that matter. 3-4 year olds don't really care about who's married, who's pregnant, etc. Sure, they may see a basketball size belly and ask, "hey what's going on here?" But I don't think they really put it all together (ie: "Miss Smith says she's got a baby in her tummy...but remember three weeks ago when Mr Anderson told her that her boyfriend was on the phone? Hmmm, that must mean she's not married! Bah! She's such a hypocrite!!" I think it's more like, "Miss Smith says there's a baby in her tummy. I want some juice. Hey that's MY coloring book. I don't want to take a nap. She stole my barbie!" and other such toddler-randomness).
    This reminds me of when I was in kindergarten and told my 30 year old cousin she was "bad" for smoking. Of course this is a different situation--she was a family member, not a school / social type worker. She looked me straight my five year old eyes with complete matter-of-factness and said, "honey that's none of your business". I was stunned, but it closed the case for me. ;)
  • I have been at my job for about a year and I still do not know if the marital status of 6 of the 7 women I work with. We're here to work not to have chat time about our personal lives. I think if anyone asks this teacher about her basketball, all she needs to say is, I am here to work, and your here to learn, not to discuss my personal life. That being said, this teacher should not be fired or even questioned.
  • My mother was 16 when she had me. She is the person who I admire most in this world, she is my best friend and my greatest confidant. She is a role model for me and for others whose life she has touched. Just because a woman may become pregnant under circumstances that are immoral or wrong for others does not mean that they are wrong per se, and she can still instill values and beliefs in children and their parents as long as they have an open mind. If the children know so much about a tacher's life, there are bigger problems in the school than her pregnancy. Her personal life should not be taken into consideration when deciding on a professional decision.
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