Boss Nightmare

celeste

I need advice in the worst kind of way...My boss is impossible and it is effecting employee morale. He has always been difficult but it has gotten much worse in the past year. His 22 year old son was killed in a tragic accident and now he is terrible. He humilates salaried employees in staff meetings by rushing them during their time for discussion, he only wants to counsel in front of a group - if counsel is the word you want to use. There are tons of things I can tell you but you would get tired of reading it all. Just remember, I have been in HR for several years and have never had to deal with this. The biggest problem is that it has gotten so bad most of the salaried employees are looking for other jobs and the hourly employees are also getting included in his attitude of "Nothing is good enough." For the kicker - He is the Plant Mgr.
I have spoken to him about his behavior (even though it also directed at me - we have even had a screaming match or to because of it). He said I was right and even got tears in his eyes. That whole thing was short lived and all his bad attitude returned worse than before. Since that didn't work, I spoke to his supervisor, the GM at our corporate office. They insisted he go to counseling and that caused him to become bitter and yes - worse than before. His supervisor told him that I spoke to him about the problem and I believe that he also told him that I was the one that talked to him (even though there were others that called him from our facility).
I really like my job other than not knowing who it's "going to be this time." My leaving is not the resolution because it's not just me with the problem. I am tired of being his buffer. PLEASE HELP, I NEED ADVICE!

Don D

I suspect the man is suffering from clinical depression brought on or escalated by the death of his son and all that revolves around that, which will NEVER end for him, as you and the staff will tend to forget all about it. If this assumption on my part is not totally off the wall, understanding the problem is about as far as you can move toward resolution without his being open to further counseling. Perhaps you have an employee assistance program. If not, you can still contact a counselor confidentially, who does operate in that framework, and receive free advice as to how you might respond to the gentleman's problem. You and the others should resist the urge to label him 'a bad guy'. That's not the deal at all. Sonny in Florida will be of more assistance, as her background, I think, is along such lines. Best of luck to him. Try your best to work through this with him.

celeste

Remember he has always been like this. To explain that - before it was off and on...more often on than off. We do have an EAP and he used that service without success because he thought it was a waste of time. For counseling, corporate offices hired a consultant to talk to every employee in groups then all together for a half day on Saturday. He didn't attend.
I think the key here and why I need some help is that he has always been this way and it is getting worse. There were serious problems with his behavior before the accident with his son. To the point that the Manufacturing Manager and I had to sit down and tell him that he had many of our best employees searching for jobs. If he hadn't been like this in the past I think everyone could live with it and work through it with him but it is getting impossible to keep on looking over him. You wouldn't believe some of the things he has and continues to say to employees. I am stuck with this one.

System

If he has always been this way, probably the death of his child has made it worse. Counseling for grief, then, is part of the answer, but doesn't get to the root of his problem. I had a similar situation with a plant manager who was promoted to corporate (that's how my company handled it). He continued to harrass and intimidate everyone around him at corporate and went through secretary after secretary. Finally I told him the next secretary he hired he would have to keep for 2 years...This saint of a secretary lasted 2 years and bid on another job asap to get away from him. To make this long sad story short, this manager, played golf one weekend...came home that evening..sat down and died in his chair from a heart attack. He produced results for the company and was allowed to behave the way he did. I've often wondered if we had required him to have a physical and emotional exam, would the heart problem have shown up and he be alive today. He could have been reacting the way he did because of unknown health issues. I would recommend to the GM that due to your plant manager's unacceptable behavior something should be done. He is on a tight fuse for some reason...either health related or emotional or both. He should be placed on a leave with the understanding that he attend EAP and get a physical in order to stay employed. Good Luck! LZ

System

If he is meeting the expectations of the Corporate Office, there may be nothing you can do. It seems that plant managers are often 'GOD' if they meet those quotas...however, the GM needs to be reminded of legal liabilities and the hostile work environment that the plant manager has forced on the employees. Some companies care enough about the investment they have made in that level of employee enough to 'do something.' A mandatory leave with required grief counseling may help. You should suggest to the GM that you, he, and the plant manager sit down together and decide what is best for the plant manager and the company. He lost a child which has to be one of the hardest things ever to face a parent. I can't imagine what he must be going through. He is angry and needs help in facing his loss without taking it out on everyone else. His anger is dangerous to himself and to the employees around him. The company owes it to its employees to provide a safe environment in which to work, and that includes protection from hostility in the guise of 'managing a plant.' LaVerne Zimmerman

sonny

I don't know about more assistance.. I agree with Don for the most part. People often think depression is crying, inability to get off the couch etc., but irritability can be part of it as well. Also agree that his son's death is probably a BIG piece here, especially if only child or only son. Apparently though, this would not be totally situational depression as you noted that he was a difficult person prior to his son's death. My opinion is most bullys don't really like being bully's..they are miserable, unhappy people who feel if I am angry and miserable, I am going to make everyone else the same way..and then regret it. . they have some insight..evidenced by the tears..just have trouble stopping, but it is not impossible. I am a great believer in EAP's and support groups can be of help too (ie a group of parents who have also lost children), but so far, it does not seem counseling has helped much and bottom line, I believe people have got to want to change and get better. Two cliches come to mind.."You can lead a horse to water. .." and a quote from Abraham Lincoln, "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." Ultimately, he still has to choose if he is going to miserable and angry or try to get on with his life. So, while I agree with Don that trying to use some compassion with this guy is appropriate I also feel that lifes' adversities do not automatically give him license to be unprofessional and mean. I would continue to try to work with him, but someone needs to let this guy know...compassionately.. that his behavior has got to change. In terms of dealing with him. .I would not get into screaming matches with him. I would lower my voice to just above whisper level and say something to the effect. ."You know Joe, you seem real angry today and I am sorry for that but I am not going to be yelled at so come see me when you feel better(or can speak professionally, something like that" and walk away. It really does work. My opinions. .hope they help some.

Pork

IT SURE READS LIKE A HOSTILE WORKING ENVIRONMENT TO ME AND IT IS SUPPORTED BY CORPORATE. Therefore, I recommend you get the corporate leader's real attention, through a visit with your friendly EEOC office. If you are not very careful you will be the person, who is closest to the flame and you'll be the problem, and you'll find a reorganization in place which will not include you. GET YOUR STORY ON RECORD FOR PROTECTION. I have twice (both was pure sex in the work place) been there and done that, without the EEOC PROTECTION. MY FOOLISH IDEA OF LOYALITY TO THE COMPANY AND THE OWNERS LEFT ME OUT IN THE COLD. It reads to me, as if this guy is a lost cause and either you get to the EEOC or get ready to be looking for another job for yourself! It is amazing to me how corporate prefers production or numbers over the well being of the company, which could produce better numbers or production if the problem was cut out! PORK

celeste

These are the things that concern. I am so tired of being the buffer when I have tried everything to ease the frustration. I have already learned that corporate thinks a little therapy will take care of everything. They ask me every now and then how things are going and I say about the same, it usually ends there. I guess they have decided we can just live with it. What ducks do you suggest I get in a row.
Can you imagine a supervisor that gets furious and treats you like a diseased animal for days because you have been out for a medical reason that is real.
By the way, our numbers are good but it really has nothing to do with him. We have some really good people that are now looking for other jobs.

SMace

It doesn't sound like harassment to me because it is not based on sex and it is directed at everyone. I think your best shot is to convince the corporate GM to send him back to the EAP. The corporate GM needs to sit down with him and say you have to go to the EAP and you have to follow their treatment guidelines. Have the EAP professional set guidelines for his treatment. I would recommend giving him a leave of absence to get treatment. When he is finished you need to clearly explain the behavior that will not be tolerated and follow it. I would give this scenario to the corporate GM and see what happens. All he/she can do is say no.

celeste

Give the Plant Manager (my boss) the behavior that will be tolerated. Also, Corporate has paid for private counseling for him and he has convinced the therapist that he is healed. Corporate is happy with that. The other point is that our GM tells him what is said and that tends to make matters much worse for anyone that speaks to the GM.
As for the EAP, the Plant Mgr says the therapist is useless, all she did was listen to him. He is giving me problems with the renewal of the contract which expires next month.
This really is a difficult situation. I realize there are no easy answers but there simply is no way to tell your boss what behavior will be tolerated and keep your own job. He has also convinced the GM - his boss, that he doesn't need a LOA that he is doing fine. The GM doesn't really want to hear any more complaints because he is at a loss as well.

SMace

I was suggesting that his boss outline the behavior that will not be tolerated. But it sounds like that is hopeless. I think your only chance is to get his boss in the boat.

Is there anyone locally that you could talk to that your boss respects that may be able to get him to see the light? If that is the case please tell them up front that you do not want your name to enter their conversation. They should respect that.

Other than that get your resume out. The corporate GM is going to have to learn the hard way.

Crout

I'm not sure what kind of advice you're looking for since nothing that has been posted seems to suit you, and I can understand why. This is one of those times when it would be great if the folks on the Forum lived in the same community instead of all across the country because I think you need all the friends you can get right now. You can either document every incident and keep pressing Corporate, or suck it up, shake it off and wait for enough good people to leave, and that will goad Corporate into action. I was in a similar situation years ago. Unfortunately, it was the CEO who was the tyrant, and I was the one who left. I was unemployed for 8 months and it led to the breakup of a long-term relationship, but I have never regreted that decision. Take care.

scottorr

I have dealt with his kind in the past. Often when someone lashes out they are only trying to cover up what is really going on. It sounds like this guy has had anger control problems for years but that his depression has enhanced it. Having worked in the counseling and psychological world in the past, I believe that his anger control issues are more deeply seeded than you might expect. These issues often stem from childhood, so a few counseling sessions about anger management will not cut it in this case. It sounds like he needs years of counseling. Maybe your corporate office will not recognize that this is as big of an issue as it is until the number start to slip.

I dealt with a regional President once who went through a new secretary every other week and who liked to scream at people in the middle of executive meetings. He kept firing VPs left and right. Finally someone at corporate figured it out. As it turns out he had been steeling money from the company for about three years and anyone who came close to figuring it out was fired.

System

Is there a corporate legal counsel you consult with other issues for your location? If so, please talk to him/her concerning this. I believe this is a hostile work environment (nothing to do with sexual harassment) but hostile nevertheless because of emotional harrassment that could lead to physical harrassment if its allowed to continue. Getting your resume out and finding a new job would be the easiest solution for you...but doesn't fix anything...as the problem remains with the plant manager. You've works hard trying to find solutions and to continue working under these conditions. I would send a letter to the GM with a copy to the GM's manager and to corporate HR outlining the events that led up to this letter. I would remind them that this letter is on behalf of yourself, as the HR manager, and the employees of the plant, and as such, there should be no retaliation toward you or any of the other employees for having come forward with this formal complaint. I have found that most managers in the GM role or the plant manager role dislike conflict therefore they tend to ignore it - the numbers are the most important to them and they are praised for it (not the employees who accomplish those numbers. They actually think that fear and intimidation, screaming and yelling, are ways to handle conflict. Anyway, please protect yourself. If anything happens, you will be held accountable. My heart is with you, LZ

SMace

lzimmer,
Your solution is a good one. However, I do not think it is hostile work environment harassment. HWE harassment must be based on sex, age, race, religion, disability, national origin or religion. It sounds like he is an equal opportunity harasser and that does not fall under the legal defintion.

celeste

You know now that you mention it, he does give people a hard time when they are out sick - even for serious situations. Even me...I had a car accident in Jan. (rolling my car) and was lucky to walk away with bruised, scrapes and a minor concussion. Of course the doctor wouldn't let me drive the 35 mile commute and he was furious with me. He called me at home everyday with an attitude. This is not just me. Everytime someone is out for an illness, he even talks about them to hourly ee's. Great guy, huh?

celeste

Thank you for understanding my problems. I know you are right in the fact that I should somehow keep on and on and on with this. I am not really afraid of retaliation as much as the constant conflice with him. I am most afraid of be pushed and pushed to the point of leaving. I am sure most of you need your jobs and I really need mine since my husband was caught up in the "downsizing" factor recently. Our GM and his supervisor (CEO)will look concerned upfront just as before but the Plant Mgr. finds ways to relate his behavior to some minor issue or goes off on someone then is super nice for a few days. I know you are right and so is everyone else. I really appreciate the advice. I live in a fairly small community so finding another job is probably what I should do but it's not that easy. I guess I posted this the vent and an ear/shoulder.
Thanks

System

As HR folks, it is easy to provide advice to you and to those who are going through these types of situations. However, I know how hard it is when you are the one it is happening to. I am a strong advocate that managers treat their employees with respect....but when my manager treated me with disrespect and threw insults my way, it took me awhile to speak to him about it. Since he treated everyone rudely, his manager considered it 'just his personality' and "he didn't really mean anything by it". And My manager denied the threats he made to me. He only treated me this way the last 6 months I was with the company so it was not his normal behavior toward me. I spoke with our HR attorney and she handled it very well on my behalf. When the company (150,000+ employees) downsized, he was left standing, and my position was eliminated. I received a nice severence package. He immediately replaced me with a person who was a smoking buddy of his from another department. He got a slap on the wrist from management when I inquired why I was replaced when it was my position that was eliminated, not me. I regret not pursing it any further, as I have since gained knowledge and strong evidence (witnesses & paper) to validate my charges, and had an attorney offer to represent me pro-bono. I chose to go no further as it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. I was so company oriented and company loyal, that I had no life or friends outside work. I've retained my friendship with co-works at that company and made new ones inside and outside the company I work for now. I'm still company loyal and love HR work. However, when I can't sleep at night I don't go in at 3:30 am because of the workload anymore, and I leave by 6:00 pm every night, and I now play as hard as I work. I'm sharing all this with you, so I can tell you that you will be ok whether you stay or go. Venting is good for you and you have done all you can do without the support of the plant manager's GM. Whatever happens, just take control of the things you can, accept the things you cannot change or are not allowed to take control of, and enjoy all that you can from your work and when you are outside work. Since it sounds like you need to stay in that job, put on a happy face and don't let him get to you even if you have to vent to us everyday.

njjel

And sometimes after doing everything one can do, there is nothing else that can be reasonably done and we have to move on......find another job and save our own sanity. Good luck to you!

scottorr

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Your story sounds so familiar to me. I was a very loyal ee, always sticking my neck out on behalf of the company. My boss was always screaming at ees. Finally I complained and for about a week things were great. However, three months later the company had to lay off three people out of 700 for budget purposes, and I was one of them. A month after I was let go I was replaced by a guy making twice as much as I was, who happened to be my old bosses friend. I had no recourse, I was a 27 year old white male.

My story also has a happy ending. I found a great job making a lot more money and a great boss. Things happen for a reason. Keep your head up and plugging away and remember your not the one with the problem, let him own it.

Pork

CELESTE: I am more convienced than ever that your need for solid protection with long time results is through EEOC. Being Female and possibly over 40 gives you ARE a protected class designation and the hostile working world is your every day life. You do not have to do anything more than to take your information, which includes the corporate leader's actions, to the EEOC; let them sort it ouT and provide you WITH a life time of protection and the support of all the other employees who are, likewise, unprotected. Their support of you and your story will break open this vase and let the scum flow to the top where it can be properly removed all the way to the corporate level.

VENTING ON THIS CHANNEL WILL NEVER CURE YOUR PAIN, VENTING AND SMILING LIKE ALL IS OK, IS ALSO WRONG. EE'S ARE BEING HURT BY THESE SOB'S AND IT AIN'T RIGHT. PULL YOURSELF UP BY THE BOOT STRAPS, WILL NOT ALSO CUT IT! FACING THE PROBLEM AND CONCERNS SQUARELY AND GO FORTH WITH YOUR BELIEF THAT YOU FULLY UNDERSTAND WHERE THE CANCER IS LOCATED. AND THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS THE ABILITY TO BE THE SURGEON, THEREFORE, FOR THE GOOD OF THE COMPANY AND IT'S EMPLOYEES LED BY A (WORLDCOM/MCI/LDDS)TYRANT (SADDAM WHO?SAN). DO THE RIGHT THING, ATTACK AND RESET THE FLAG! GET AN ATTORNEY OR GO TO THE EEOC WHO WILL INVESTIGATE AND PEOVIDE YOU WITH PROTECTED STATUS AND CONFIDENTIAL SUPPORT. I had the chance once and I blew it, the company and all of the good people who were the company are gone. GONE UNDER FOR THE LACK OF GOOD LEADERS.

I HATE THE EEOC activities, when I'm on the receiving end of a stupid complaint or a misfired complaint, or a made up complaint, but I have to admit that EEOC does have a place and sometimes it takes this type of action to get the ship righted when being captained by a pirate.

PORK

WT

I have read through the various notes and see that the problem is not really resolved. Essentially you have three options.
1. Circle the wagons. Pull back into the Human Resource world and work and let your boss do what he will. Do not worry about losses to the company but put that under the education column. Sometimes we have to pay before we learn.
2. Run. Leave the job and situation and hope to do better elsewhere.
3. Fight. As Pork has said, it is tough to fight alone. You will have to document what, when, where, and why and then go get help. Since there is clearly no help for you inside the organization, you will have to go outside for help. If you fight alone, they will tend to view you as the problem and try to get rid of you. If you bring in outside help, they are more likely to fear taking action against you even though they may want to get rid of you.

These are hard choices and you are the only one to make them. One final thought, "Often in our line of work, winning is nothing and losing is nothing but the cost/price of winning or losing is everything."

Good luck.