UC Problem

Crout

We have a Union employee....let's call her LP. Since March of 2003, for her own personal reasons, LP has requested and been granted three transfers to three different positions. This has caused her weekly hours and hourly wage to fluctuate somewhat (40 hrs a week to 32.5, then back to 40). A few weeks ago I received an inquiry for wage information from our local (loco?) Unemployment office here in Philadelphia. Apparently LP filed an Unemployment claim back in March when she transfered to the 32.5 hour job, claiming the transfer was involuntary, which I personally know to be untrue. She was awarded partial benefits, which we were billed for in May (we are on the reimburseable system). I never saw an official determination, so I could not appeal the decision. That is a separate issue, which I have taken up with the UC office. My question for the Forum is: I would very, very much....so much it makes my teeth hurt....like to discipline 'ol LP.....particularly since it was I who went to bat for her to get the transfers in the first place. I feel that she has committed fraud. Does anyone see a pitfall here? Keep in mind that she's a Union employee. I'm not going to fire her, however, if she keeps filing claims it would escalate to that. Thanks.

scottorr

Do you have a policy on conduct? This sounds like a violation if you do. Be careful though and try to get things worked out with UC. I'm sure that if discipline takes place, the union will say something if you are right or wrong.

Don D

Find another rabbit to run Crout. She has indeed committed fraud; however, the fraud was perpetrated against the state's UI system, not the company, even though the cost rolled down to you. If she committed workers' comp fraud, the cost would roll down to you although it would have been the State's comp system laws that were defrauded, not the company's. Both frauds are punishable by stated penalties imposed by the defrauded party, the state agency. If she falsified a company record in the process, she may have defrauded the company. Bring the entire scenario to the attention of the UC Benefits Department in a lengthy letter carefully outlining her fraud and including copies of her request for the transfer to show that it was voluntary and at her request. She will be called upon to not only pay it back but will not be able to draw again until she does. After that occurs, your account will be made whole. Meanwhile, just smile at her in an especially meaningful way when you pass her and she'll get the message.

Pork

It reads like a written warning at the least is due. The false and fraudlent filing is a terminating act in our world of work. She received money that she was not due in payment for false information presented. Now, give the issue and the facts to her boss and let them handle it. Pork

Don D

Pork: I must disagree and again drive my point. When one commits fraud against another, or an agency, or an institution apart from their place of employment, that fraud should not be punished by the employer. Even though the fraud indirectly involved her employment circumstance, we cannot 'write her up' and discipline her for fraud she committed against another entity. What I hear you saying is "Write her up for lying to the unemployment insurance people". That's a slippery slope that can't be defended by the employer.

LeeR

Iwouldn't bother with it. I have learned during many appeal hearings that ee generally will not hesitate to lie if they think it will further their cause. Expect it and move on.

LindaS

I agree with Don - since the fraud was actually committed against the state UI system, I don't think you should be the disciplining party. She will "get hers" when she gets the notice that she either has to pay the wages she received in error (due to her fraud) or future UI benefits will be withheld. Depending on the amount, there may be a future garnishment issue as well. People frequently tell half truths and outright lies when it comes to obtaining their unemployment and it is up to you, as the employer, to provide UI with the necessary documentation to allow them to make an educated decision.

Whatever

I have been to enough ui hearings to know that the ee will have a very interesting version of the truth. They are usually caught in their own words. I don't know how many times I didn't even have to present the company's case. Your best course is to make sure that ui understands the situation.

Crout

Don, my head tells me that you're probably right, but my heart wishes it weren't so. I have already communicated my concerns to the UC office in a detailed letter, but as anyone who has worked in Philly could tell you my efforts will most likely be in vain. The UC system in Philly has something of a bias against employers in general and is a system that is chronically understaffed and overburdened. Thank you all for your input.

Don D

Crout: Be sure to put a copy of your letter in her file so that the next time she files you can enclose a copy of it then as well. It won't change things in the philly system, but it might make you feel better. And don't forget you can appeal the appeal decision.

LFernandes

Do you get a notice and questionnaire that she's filed for benefits? We do in NY. I've actually had something similar happen to me and sent back the questionnaire with a letter explaining the situation. I actually received a call from the UI office and the benefits were denied. I definately appeal this one.

Good luck!

LFernandes

pecohr

I'm a little late getting to this one but have a question. We require all requests for transfer/s to be in writing from the requesting employee, do you? You could forward that document to the Employment Dept. as evidence.