Damned if you do, Damned if you don't - Which is worse?

lnelson

We are in process of a termination ( SEE "Terming an employee" for more details)
today the employee breached our employee handbook policy by emailing again documents outside the company. Our attorney feels that we need to discuss this with her instead of terming her. We KNOW that if we term her she will file some sort of claim. If we keep her on it allows her to obtain additional information and forward it to the outside source. Either way a claim will be filed at some point. What is worse? Keeping her on after speaking with her stating we are investigationg the altercation and wait until she does something again then term her. OR Term her now and wait for whatever comes?

Our attorney feels that because of a friendship with an employee on leave she will consider all the disciplinaries received as retailiation for her friendship. This is not the case. All the disciplinaries were given because they all occurred relatively close to each other. He also feels this gives her the chance to do something intolerable and then we would be able to term at that point. I have alot of documentation but, most of it starts from March 2003 and on. We started having problems with her at the beginning of the year.

Please help I am getting an ulcer over here.

cthr

If she is in violation of your company policy and she has been warned about this behavior-TERM HER. Remember anyone can sue anyone at any time, that doesn't mean that she has a case. Based on your earlier post, this is the first time you have had this type of issue-what you do now set the precedence going forward.

System

I would start by asking a few questions.

Are the documents being sent outside the company proprietary information?
Is your documentation of other incidents sufficient? How many incidents?
What is she going to file a charge on---the company's decision to terminate an employee who repeatedly violates policy after warnings?? I don't believe there is such a claim as retailiation for a friendship. She either violated policy or she didn't. Perhaps I'm missing something. If you keep her on all of the other employees can violate your e-mail policy with immunity from any employment action.

HRsage

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-23-03 AT 02:50PM (CST)[/font][p]I agree with CTHR. TERM HER. You say you have all your documents in order so you're fine. Anyone can do a claim about anything. You have warned her and she is still doing it?? She'd be gone. You are following your policy and that's what's important. As the above post said you are setting your precedent on this issue for future situations like this. If your company doesn't want to follow the policy then what is the point of having the policy? You should be fine. Good luck.

lnelson

I agree with you that we should term but, I need to convince others to do it today. Rather than prolong my agony and ulcer. So better to do it now than later. Right.

System

You should term her first then worry about a claim later. If you keep her on board, she will only do more damage AND she will most likely quit and THEN file a claim. Protect your company and get her out of there!!

Don D

My question is 'Who has the ultimate authority to make the decision?' Does the attorney's opinion stand as a ruling on this matter? I really don't understand his logic as you quoted him relating to the employee on leave. Sounds pretty shallow.

It sounds as if you may be (escuse me here) in a pissing contest with one or more people over whether or not to terminate. I agree that if policy violations have occured and have been followed by discipline and still they are occuring, further discipline up to and including termination must take place. If you are unsucessful in your efforts to convince management that termination is in order, how about convincing them to have your IS people discontinue her computer privileges totally for a period of time with one final warning?

cebudragonlady

Look at it this way: the company confidential information that is being e-mailed outside the company, could have worse consequences than being sued after
you term her. Leaked information could cause the loss of sales and jobs ! TERM
the employee NOW, and save yourself the kind of ulcers that will come if the company goes out of business.

Chari

lnelson

The employee has just informed me through her supervisor that she would like to take next week off. Since we are not that busy in her dept. I want to tell her ok. Then hopefully I will be able to convince the others to wait till she returns to terminate.

HRsage

I'd tell her to take a lot more time away and give her the pink slip. What type of documents is she emailing? Could she do anything with these documents while she is gone next week? Whoever makes the decision needs to do it today and be done with it one way or another.

lnelson

I am too late the employee has left the building. Unless this can be done while she is on vacation?? Otherwise, it will have to wait until her return.
I will keep all forumians posted.

mrbill

I feel that there are two important elements in this case. 1. Has the individual been warned prior about this Policy, and her Violations. 2. What was she sending ? Was it confidential information that could affect the Company in a negative way ? If the answers are "Yes" - Terminate the person. Never let the threat of a lawyer (gotta love em) get in the way.

Rockie

If you have your documentation, go ahead and term this person. Friendship within a company or a threat to sue is not a reason to tolerate bad behavior and violation of company rules.

sandra_d

Attorneys will frequently (maybe always) advise you to take the most conservative route possible and have every possible detail and every possible scenario accounted for and addressed in your documentation. In the real world, I find that this is rarely possible, and rarely matters. As many times as I've been told that the employee had an attorney, or was getting an attorney, only a handful of times has it been true. I think employees think that the threat of having an attorney will scare me, and then they will get their way. WRONG! In any event, your attorney's job is to give you advice; although it may often be advisable to follow it, it is still up to you and your company to determine whether or not to do so. Sometimes you just need to go with your gut instincts, or protect other company interests (like morale, proprietary information, whatever) instead of taking the complete conservative approach.

lnelson

There is an update to the scenario. While she has been off this week we have had several employees complaining about her lack of follow through on some very important deadlines and not informing them of changes to delivery dates of vital stock. Without this notification from her we are now forced to contact customers to reschedlue their deliveries with only 1 day notice. If the procedure would have been followed they still would have been rescheduled but, it would have been at least 1 week notice allowing the customer to make proper arrangements. She has been adviced several times of the importance of notifying the proper people with any changes to deliveries. It has happened before but, in just this week it affected 5 customers.

I have spoken to the higher ups and upon her return she will be termed. I believe this should have been done prior to her leaving on last friday but, we would still have these problems.