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System · May 2003

This refers back to a post that I did last week about making an employee exempt.
We were trying to make a graphic designer exempt by calling her the Creative Director and have her manage the 2 person janitor crew. After consulting with this site I went back to them and told them there was another way. Well the finance manager ( my boss) didn't want to hear about it, was upset that I had done further research on it and was skeptical about my solution.
Flash forward to this week. When the subject was brought up again I told him that I objected to the janitor solution and thought that we had another way. He
told me that my objections were not welcome and that by doing so I was not being a member of the management "team" and furthermore he wanted no more of my e-mailing suggestions or documenting whatever objections I had to the way management was dealing with employees. I think I have made one e-mail since I have been here about not having management shove employees through a window to retrieve something from a locked office since a previous incident of that exact nature resulted in an employee breaking her nose.
I believe that the current management team is making decisions daily that put us at risk for lawsuits and breaking the law.I feel I need to protect myself and any future career I have in HR by documentation.
I am so new at this I don't know what to do. Should I just start a personal file at home?
Sorry for the long post, any help would be appreciated.

WOCO Frank · May 2003

Perfect world: You have a heart-to-heart talk with Mr. Finance, explain to him that you're not there to be a pain in his ass, but rather to protect the company's interests, both short-term and long-term. Explain to him that doing things properly in HR means reducing exposure to adverse legal and finanical action, as well as improving efficiency and productivity. Mr. Finance sees you as part of the solution to making him look better, and begins to value your input.

Real world: Mr. Finance is an overbearing jerk who resents having to follow "unreasonable" guidelines, not matter what the reason. He continues to undercut you, gradually reducing you to a papershuffling nobody who will eventually be terminated for "allowing" the company to lose something in litigation.

Tough spot to be in, but it sounds like this is a company that sees HR as a "necessary evil" that should just fix problems as they arise, and preferably fix them overnight at no additional cost to the company. If you think you can turn that around, that's where I'd start. Otherwise, I'd look for an employer that better understands what HR is all about.

Nina I · May 2003

Wow. I don't envy you. I've not been at this long myself, so perhaps someone else will have something more helpful for you. I have been told (not by my boss, by the way) that my role (I am compliance) is to advise about labor laws and company policy, and of course, possible consequences. After that, I have to leave it alone, and let Operations make their own choices. I would definitely document any input you provide, and responses you may receive, as a CYA for yourself, and possibly for your company somewhere down the road. On a personal level, I console myself that I do the best that I can do, and remind myself I am not in control of the outcome. Good luck.

valentine · May 2003

Nina

I have been told the exact same thing. I am also compliance. Department Directors make their own decisions with re to employee issues and go to the Executive Director when they need guidance. The ED feels he is an expert in this area. However, I am asked for my input from time to time.

Guess its more common than I thought.

ritaanz · May 2003

Deez: You certainly work for a strange company. A finance manager that is not looking at possible litigation and a management "team" that's deaf and dumb. Sounds like you work for a circus. Polish up your resume. If you want to work in HR, this is not the company for you.
Oh, by the way, is the financial manager the transgender person?

System · May 2003

As far as I can tell he is a robot and not human at all.
I want to look for another job but it doesn't look good out here in MA. My former HR manager has been looking since october.
I also really like the regular staff on the floor (transgenders and all) and I don't want to leave them to upper managements mercy.

ritaanz · May 2003

I applaud your tenacity and determination. Remember this, the experience and knowledge you will gain from this company will be invaluable. If you can manage to shrug off the robot's comments and not stress-out, you'll have an exceptional resume including lawsuits, grievance handling, dealing with government agencies, and arrest warrants.

System · May 2003

Thank you ritaanz. I really appreciate the support I get from the forum.

Don D · May 2003

Watch out tho Deez! You should always check with Pork and me before you follow Ritaanz' advice. x:-) Just kidding. Do be wary of posts, tho, from anywhere West of a Texas to North Dakota line plus those from Vermont and the Southern third of Florida.

safety · May 2003

Whenever I need a pick-me-up and my coffee cup is dry I just chek the Forum, ya gotta love it! 8-}

Susan Fentin MA · May 2003

I know I'm weighing in a little late, but I thought I might add that supervisors (which I would assume would include your recalcitrant boss) may be PERSONALLY liable for violations of wage and hour law. If you'd like something more formal that might encourage him/her to listen up, I could dig up the statutory cite and maybe some case law. Of course, we don't represent you and I'm constrained by ethical boundaries from giving you legal advice, but this might help persuade him that violating wage and hour law is not a good idea, especially if it's wilfull as this violation seems to be. Good luck and let me know if we can help.
Susan Fentin
Associate Editor
Massachusetts Employment Law Letter
Skoler, Abbott & Presser, PC
(413) 737-4753 [email]sfentin@skoler-abbott.com[/email]

Rockie · May 2003

Deeze: This is the danger when HR is not seen as an integral part of the organization or more specifically, part of the managment team. If this group doesn't follow your advice and value your expertise, then you are basically powerless to do your job. I would certainly document any recommendations that I had made to this group just for your own protection. When they get in trouble and try to throw the blame on HR, then you will have all your ducks in a row.

I would definitely keep my eyes open for other opportunities.

Nina I · May 2003

I don't want to sound naive, but are there companies out there that listen to and value HR? I just saw Valentine's reply, and I wonder, too, just how pervasive it is, whether compliance or HR. I think Don mentioned something about this in an unrelated post a few months ago - something about the optimum balance between being an effective HR professional versus a Chicken Little i.e. the sky is always falling sort of thing. (Not his words, and probably my imperfect reading of what he was saying.) I did take it to heart, at least in terms of my own intensity when issues come up and no-one seems to be concerned (thank you Don, retroactively). Susan's point is well-taken - maybe training supervisors directly would be a way to wield some influence. . . .

Rockie · May 2003

Nina: I can tell you, there are not a lot of them...but I am fortunate to be in one finally. I report directly to the CEO who values Human Resources very much. I am a part of the management team on the same level with the CFO and COO. I am recognized for having a brain, being a contributor and knowing what I am talking about, rather than being just a bothersome gnat flying around their heads.

It would be very, very difficult if I ever had to go back to a company where I was seen as more of an irritant than a professional.

I am very lucky!

ritaanz · May 2003

Sometimes it is the perception a Company gets after living with an incompetent, bungling, inept individual in the HR arena. Have any of you taken over a department that was in complete disarray? It takes a long time to change an attitude.

Don D · May 2003

Hello Ritaanz...you've been missing for awhile. I had the wonderful opportunity at my last job to step into a department head job that had had 4 HR Director/Managers in 18 months, including the one who quit after 10 years. The place was in complete disarray and I managed to stay three full years, develop solid written policies, snatch the department together, hire competent staff, negotiate and manage a union contract, get the department employee/friendly and hopefully provide value. I even gained a 'seat at the corporate table' where before HR had only gotten info passed down from Hiz-honor the CFO. I tried my best and think I succeeded, in insisting on a competent, helpful, useful, go-to department, as opposed to the gnat in the ointment clerical department just handing out a variety of forms and such.

When I announced my resignation about 2 months ago, it was especially meaningful to me when I walked into one of the two co-owner's office, that he said this to me: "We will certainly miss you here. In my 30 years with this company as an employee and now an owner, I will say that you have brought organization, integrity, professionalism and direction to Human Resources. I ain't tootin' my horn at all.....just telling ya'll how important it is to feel good about the job and my contribution.

In some settings HR (and other support or ancillary departments) will always be viewed as gnats in the ointment. In some others, it becomes what you make of it. Don't ever expect one or the other. Instead, get yourself involved in a daily effort to provide value at every level you can impact, from the dock to the corporate inner sanctum; from the stock room to the board room; from the part time clerk's level to the most high and mighty among the old codgers. And don't ever accept less than what you know should exist....if it gets to that point, move on.

Mentel · May 2003

I have worked for firms where HR was just a necessary evil. It was very hard to function in this environment because I was seen as making waves when in fact I was trying to do what was right for the employees and the company. The company I now work for appreciates my efforts and rewards me for them. They see HR as an integral part of the operation and come to me for advice on legal issues, compensation and benefits, policies and some issues not even related to HR. You are in a bad situation and need to document, document and document!!! Don't become a scape goat for incompetant boobs. Keep on educating everyone on the financial aspects of bad decisions and keep that resume updated!!!

ritaanz · May 2003

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-27-03 AT 10:05AM (CST)[/font][p]Hey Don! Well said.....er.....written. That was exactly my point. Hard work and persistence earns you a seat at the BIG table.

System · May 2003

Hi All,Fly in the Ointment here!
So, they just made another person exempt. I'm pretty sure she qualifies but she works under 40 hours, about thirty. What ticks me off is that they did'nt even bother to run it by me.
I wish, wish, wish I could find another job. I love this organization and the principles it stands for but new managent does'nt really support those principles.
There is nothing out there in HR in my area. My former boss, all degreed up and with many, many years of experience, has been unable to find anything.
I have no degree and the only experience is here.Plus I'll let you in on a secret- Iam a horrible typist!!!

Margaret Morford · May 2003

Don't lose heart and start looking. You boss may be over-qualified for jobs you'd be a perfect match for. Your search will be different from his and maybe much more successful. Start looking around and get out. What you love about your company is in the past because the management has changed.

Margaret Morford
theHRedge
615-371-8200
[email]mmorford@mleesmith.com[/email]
[url]http://www.thehredge.net[/url]

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