HELP I've got 45 min to get info

System

Management wants to get rid of someone tomorrow. They want to call it a layoff so that he can vcollect unemployment but they are going to rehire a replacement right away. I've always thought that if we call it a layoff we can't replace the exact same job. Can we layoff for job performance (cause thatis what it is)
Or does it matter and get him unemployment by not appealing.
Any pitfalls here ?
I am in MA

sandra_d

If they want him to collect unemployment, simply terminate and don't fight the unemployment request. Don't call it a layoff when it isn't one -- BIG TROUBLE there which will equal BIG DOLLARS!!

mbeam

Ditto - call it what it is - a termination. Do they have documentation to back it up? Also, does the employee fall into any of the protected classes? Last one, why the rush? When a process is rushed, you may end up regretting and paying for in the long run.

dmartenson

Call it what it is. It is easier than getting bit in the butt later. My boss is always asking me to say "layoff" instead of terminate, but as far as unemployment goes, ee's get to collect either way, unless the term was for "gross misconduct". Where we always get into trouble calling a term a lay off is when we want to replace the position with someone else right away - then you run into discrimination questions (age, gender, etc.) And the "laid off" employee get their feelings hurt because they don't understand. Whereas, if you term and move on, they don't have as much recourse to come back at you - unless you really are discriminating and they can prove it.

System

I'm pretty sure he is over 40 yrs old.
We don't have any written disciplinary documentation, Just that the numbers have been down in his department since he got there.
As for the quickness, thats how my management does things. A typical situation that they have probably been mulling over, all the while grouching and complaining but never telling (HR) anyone and not doing anything about it until the big cheese comes along and says the guy has to go RIGHT NOW!
thanks to your quick advice I managed to convince him to call it what it is and term for Job Performance.
Then I spent another twenty minutes convincing them they had to have their final paycheck in hand when they do the deed. I'm pretty sure it's MA law but at any rate it is in our policies.
I have to tell them this EVERY SINGLE time this has happened for going on three years now. AAARGH

Whatever

I agree with others, you have to call it a termination. However, the man is over 40 and there is no written record written of discipline, you could have problems. What's done is done. Looking to the future, now is the time to try and convince management to slow down a little and create the written record.

LindaS

I agree with the rest - if it's a termination (which it appears to be), call it that and don't fight unemployment. In WI, there is usually a short period while UI does their "investigation" only to determine they are eligible and the former ee is paid back to day one. Make sure you have your "ducks in a row" and move on.

Don D

No state law requires that an employer respond to an inquiry from the claims office, whether the inquiry comes by mail or telephone, unless you are subpoenaed, which is terribly unlikely if you aren't protesting. In cases such as yours, if they hound you on the phone for your side of the termination story, simply tell them the company has no comment and is not contesting the award of benefits, period. You are under no obligation to provide other detail unless you wish to impact the eligibility decision or contest it once it's made. But, if you do respond, that becomes a matter of discoverable record, open to inspection. If your statement is untrue, it can indeed leave teethmarks on your fanny.

Incidentally, aside from the claims process, we are all barraged by forms and surveys from the Employment Security network (or whatever your state calls it). And, we are required by law to respond to VERY, VERY FEW of those. Typically the required ones relate to quarterly wages and the like. Unless the form states that your response is required by law, and the section and law are cited, don't feel obligated to do so. I know, I know....that's the way they get their labor market information. A general survey instrument on an annual basis is one thing, but they also have staff sitting in towers creating and shuffling all sorts of survey and data collection instruments that produce very little, if any, tangible results, other than their job retention. Draw the line wherever you want it to be. Before you stone me, don't forget I worked in that system for 25 years. x:-)