EMPLOYEE ARRESTED AT WORKPLACE FOR THEIFT/UNEMPLOYMENT BENNIFTS

Our company has had major inventory shortages. We hired an investgator. He involved some undercover officers to do some buy's. They had enough evidence on our Installation/Warehouse Manager & our Purchasing/Inventory Control girl to come in an arrest them. They are charging them with a 4th class felony. Now he is going to be eligable for Unemployment. I couldn't beleive it becuase that is defintly Misconduct during work. Of course I'm going to appeal this. He even admitted to this. I sent them a copy of the newspaper article and gave them phone numbers for the Detectvie & Investgator. He was not really terminated because he was handcuffed and was taken away. When he got out of jail he called for his final check & wanted to know if he was going to receive his vacation pay. Of course we said no. Now would you say he quit or did we let him go? Was I suppose to tell him he still had his job and give him a warning in writing!! I don't think so.... I really don't want to spend more money by hiring an attoney to appeal this. Some of our employees are so upset that our gov. would allow this! And that their tax dollors are being used for this. What should we do to stop this?????

Comments

  • 18 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • Appeal it, he most likely lied as to the circumstances surrounding his termination. Outline the exact reason for the termination. Stealing from the company, or you can go the no call no show route if that is what you termed him for.
    Follow the appeal system.
    My $0.02 worth.
    DJ The Balloonman
  • I agree with balloonman. You have nothing to lose except time to go and appeal and you may win. In those cases, I usually appeal and have come out 50/50.

    Nothing ventured nothing gained.
  • We had a similar circumstance. On the same day as the arrest, we sent a letter to the employee's home advising them that they were terminated for cause. Also, we paid, on advice of attorney, any earned vacation and sick days that were due. Also, we appealed unemployment and the ee never collected.
  • >We had a similar circumstance. On the same day as the arrest, we sent
    >a letter to the employee's home advising them that they were
    >terminated for cause. Also, we paid, on advice of attorney, any earned
    >vacation and sick days that were due. Also, we appealed unemployment
    >and the ee never collected.

    When you appealed did you have to go before a judge & if so,did you take anyone with you? I have done this a few times & usually won. This time the ee has an attorny. In the past I've never had to get an attorny involved.

  • Usually, including this case, if it goes to a hearing, I appear. However, the initial forms for unemployment are handled by ADP. If we feel we need representation at a hearing, ADP would send a representative. This happens very rarely.
  • >Usually, including this case, if it goes to a hearing, I appear.
    >However, the initial forms for unemployment are handled by ADP. If we
    >feel we need representation at a hearing, ADP would send a
    >representative. This happens very rarely.


    We have used ADP for our payroll for years..........I didn't realize they also had this service

    THX

  • You were right to fire the employee, with the termination date on the day of arrest. Unfortunately, unemployment judges do not always see things the same way the employer does. Theft certainly is misconduct. Appeal the unemployment as long as you can, then figure that even with having to pay unemployment, you are better off without someone who is stealing from you.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-05-03 AT 09:17AM (CST)[/font][p]We have minor thefts about four times a year where the police are not involved. A major situation where the person is led out practically in handcuffs happens about once a year. In either case, we term for theft, a major offense in our policy. Maybe it's because we have on site investigators, cameras, etc., and really have our ducks in a row, but we've never paid unemployment on this. I don't think it's ever even been awarded so we have to appeal.
  • >[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 05-05-03 AT
    >09:17 AM (CST)[/font]
    >
    >We have minor thefts about four times a year where the police are not
    >involved. A major situation where the person is led out practically
    >in handcuffs happens about once a year. In either case, we term for
    >theft, a major offense in our policy. Maybe it's because we have on
    >site investigators, cameras, etc., and really have our ducks in a row,
    >but we've never paid unemployment on this. I don't think it's ever
    >even been awarded so we have to appeal.

    I was shocked when I had a voice mail from DES saying they had spoken with the ee and he had told them what he had done. They were wanting to know if I had any evidence and how was it handled. I tried on many occasions to talk to the DES person but she would not call me back, so I did appeal it in writing again. So now they say he is eligible due to employer has not provided evidence to support allegaion of misappropriated company funds or property. I sent them a newspaper article, Letters from Deputy County Attorney showing we were the victim. And gave them phone numbers for the arresting Detective & the investagator's number. I'm sure they never called them.

  • Depending on the particular state's rules and regulations, UI decisions typically are based on whether or not the ee was terminated after conviction or simply on suspicion. You would indeed be safer to terminate for no show since he was in jail. But, if you've already responded to the claims office, which it appears you have, you can't pull a switcheroo with your reason at this point. Go to the hearing. There's a large chance the claimant won't appear since he's in jail. If not, you will likely win. Even if he does show up, when the hearing officer asks why he was terminated, tell him your attendance policy and that 'Joe' was arrested and did not show up for work for a number of days and self terminated. See if that flies. Don't count on common sense though. State laws are not based on common sense. And the hearing officer cannot just 'decide' to manipulate the state law to fit the circumstances of this particular situation.

    In the unlikely event he is ruled eligible and is concurrently serving time for conviction, he will be cut off due to his non-availability for work. There are 50 sets of Unemployment Insurance laws and regulations though.
  • In Missouri, the benefits awarded depend upon the amount of the theft.

    Yes, it's incredible.

    What they do is disqualify the claimant for a period of time. If you stole $20, you might be disqualified for 4 weeks; if you stole $50, maybe 6 weeks. If the claimant is disqualified for even one week, the award is not charged to the employer's account. So, in effect, what they are doing is giving the claimant benefits, but at the expense of all taxpayers instead of just the employer.

    The key is, employers don't appeal partial awards, for two reasons. First, most employers figure it's no expense to them, so why exert the energy and expense of appealing. Second, it's fairly well-established here that if you appeal a decision that was not going to cost your account to begin with (out of principle), you are going to get hammered.
  • Screw getting hammered! I would appeal it for the sake of the employer-funded system, period. And I would challenge any hering officer to 'hammer' me for doing so. I can't imagine a legislature passing that law. Wait a minute, yes I can....Our legislature had a bill this year (it failed) that would make it illegal for an employer to check criminal history on background checks.
  • >In Missouri, the benefits awarded depend upon the amount of the theft.
    >
    >Yes, it's incredible.
    >
    >What they do is disqualify the claimant for a period of time. If you
    >stole $20, you might be disqualified for 4 weeks; if you stole $50,
    >maybe 6 weeks. If the claimant is disqualified for even one week, the
    >award is not charged to the employer's account. So, in effect, what
    >they are doing is giving the claimant benefits, but at the expense of
    >all taxpayers instead of just the employer.
    >
    >The key is, employers don't appeal partial awards, for two reasons.
    >First, most employers figure it's no expense to them, so why exert the
    >energy and expense of appealing. Second, it's fairly well-established
    >here that if you appeal a decision that was not going to cost your
    >account to begin with (out of principle), you are going to get
    >hammered.

    THX for the info: Arizona is a right to work state and I don't know what our laws are on this.


  • vtoliver:

    I'm in AZ, and as I said above, we've never had a DES problem with theft. It seems to me with using an investigator you've taken all precautions, and lined up the ducks. Good luck.
  • Being a 'right to work' state would have no impact one way or another on Unemployment Insurance laws and regulations. Right to work prohibits an organization such as a union from requiring dues as a condition of employment.
  • I think maybe "right-to-work" was meant to be "employment-at-will"... which would be more applicable.
  • Neither 'right to work' nor 'employment at will' have any impact on unemployment insurance decisions or laws unless they find that you did not observe some state-required 'cause' regulation.
  • I fight 99.9% of unemployment claims. When I started here three years ago our unemployment rate was 4.8% It now runs around 2.3% (even w/a layoff). So I believe it pays to fight these claims. When we go to the hearing, I take the supervisor with me and make him do the talking. The Supervisor learns rather quickly the importance of documenting. It is beginning to pay off, because we are finding ourselves winning and not going to a hearing, because the documentation is factual and effective. I was told by UI they believe the employee before they believe the employer. Go figure! I thought California was tough, but to get unemployment based on the percentage you took, WOW!!!!
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