Blue jeans and bathrooms

BarbG

Listen to this. My CEO doesn't want anyone working in 'air-conditioned' areas of the building to wear jeans to work. He also will not permit an employee handbook to communicate rules to the employees. He issues emails or memos to convey these things. It works for a week, then everyone backslides. I issued what I call an 'Employment Summary' to get the word out on things like benefits, dress code, attendance, personal calls etc. and have them sign it, however, it's not in the league of a handbook. Our managers aren't really held accountable either. He is now upset again about the 'jean thing' because they say "it's not fair", "so-in-so has been wearing them". Now he wants to issue a statement saying 'they can't use the office bathrooms if they wear jeans'. There are no other bathrooms for the females, there is one 'shop bathroom' for the shop workers. I say issue progressive discipline and leave the bathrooms out of it. What do you think?

jimlegal

Sounds like you may be headed for major problems. Policies & Procedures must be put in a written form for all to follow. How can you justify discipline, when you don't have a written policy or procedure outling the infraction. Nor do you have a discipline policy or procedure to protect yourself. I don't envy your situation at all. After your CEO has to write a check or two for employee related violations, maybe then the CEO will allow you to put together proper policies & procedures. In the mean time I would be careful, as you know no matter how hard you try, it will be you they look to when things go bad!!! Just my thoughts...

safety

Can't use the office bathroom if wearing jeans, what kind of sick creep would make such a statement! x:o

HRsage

I agree with jimlegal. You need a handbook, not only to hold the ee's accountable but also to hold the CEO accountable. Otherwise you end up with him making up policies "willy-nilly" (like he's doing now) which is going to get you all in trouble. Why doesn't he want a handbook, unless it's to allow him to change it anytime he wants? Next it will be no bathroom with jeans on unless the wind is blowing at 3 knots in a southeast direction. He needs to get a grip.

Rockie

If your CEO is that anti-jeans, he should just say "no jeans" to anyone. That would be a fairer "rule" than no bathroom for those wearing jeans in air-conditioned areas. I agree with the other posts. You need either a "guidebook" or some type of written policies and procedures. In this litigious society we are living in, it's best to "put it in writing". Then...at least you have some defense for your actions. Otherwise, it does indeed, look like he is making up the rulebook as he goes.

WOCO Frank

I don't know what your "shop" is like, but I currently work in a building with separate shop and office areas and we don't allow shop employees to use the office restrooms either. It's just a practical matter related to cleanliness (you don't want shop grease, etc. on the surfaces in the office restroom, which is also the "public" restroom for guests and customers), and the materials (flooring, etc.) in the office restroom are generally not suited to handle the dust and abrasives tracked in from the shop.

Your CEO still sounds like a nut, but segregating the restrooms isn't necessarily bad.

Rockie

Yeah,but WOCO, you would have provisions for the shop people to have use of a restroom other than using the one in the office, correct?

Crout

Do you work for Montgomery Burns from "The Simpsons?"

vmiller MO

There is no "legal" requirement that your company have a handbook or even issue written policies to the employees. Your CEO is "legally" free to follow the path he is own. This does not mean that it is a good path, a smarth path, or even a practical path. There is a scene in "Dr. Strangelove" (one of my favorite movies)that takes place in the war room. The Russian ambassodor has just announced that Russia has a secret Doomsday Bomb. The president asks Dr. Strangelove if such a bomb was possible. Strangelove says yes and it is a great deterent device. He then says to the the Russian ambassador that the whole point of deterence is that the other side knows about the device. "That's the whole point. If you don't tell anyone, it doesn't work."

There is also no law that prohibits a rule that in turn prohibits blue jeans. It may not be wise, but unless it is disparately applied to a protected group or has a disporportionate impact on a protected group, it is not unlawful.

I generally agree with the others about the use of the bathroom. However, if the women do not have an alternative bathroom and the men do, then your CEO is walking your company into a potential sex discrimination claim.

This question is for the group who have responded. Since 1/1/03, I've encounter a host of situations like this one. What happened to common sense in corporate management. Has management forgotten that employees are sitting on juries and actions like this one breed hostile jurors?

Mentel

The answer to vmiller MO is the economy is soft, employees are worried about losing their jobs due to RIF and management thinks everyone has already forgotten about the corporate ethics scandals. Many companies are run by idiots. I have found an employer with truly high ethical standards and treats employees great all the time. It took me over 20 years to find these people. I have worked for some doozies! My advice to the original message is to start looking for a different place to work now before the economy picks up again. There are not many good people out looking now due to insecurity in the economy. Smell the coffee. Your boss is nuts.

Pork

Barb G:
Ain't this world of work just wonderful. Here we have a War going on to protect the freedom of all idiots! While there may not be any written rules or guidlines or "employee handbook", your idiot boss is, in fact, setting rules with his and your companies' practices. In that, you have no singular rules from which to guide each situation, your company leadership looses the opportunity to "set one's sails and guide the ship to mission accomplishment". Ya'll may just get there, but, it will be more costly in the end.

I have been missing from this channel for a few days as I've been spending most of my valuable time visiting the CNN web to pick up on the real news and the action of the day and moment. Since it is "just Blue Jeans here, I think I'll just switch back to the real world of important issues".

PORK

Paul in Cannon Beach

If they take their jeans off before they go to the restroom, would that be ok?

Seriously, have you considered purchasing one of those pre-written employee handbooks that you modify to suit your particular company? Most are fairly inexpensive and use the current legal language.

Maybe your boss is a control freak and he worries about stuff like jeans, etc. Having a handbook that lays everything out might calm his nerves. It would also help your employees know what is appropriate and what is not.

The worst type of discipline is arbitrary, inconsistent discipline.

Paul

Pork

Barb G: check your e-mail! Pork