I-9 fiasco, anything to do except pray?

HR in Okla

A new hire for a part-time job came in for orientation yesterday. She is from another country. Let me stress that we have LOTS of employees from other countries and don't discriminate. When my assistant sets up the orientation meeting, she calls to tell them to bring identifying documents for the I-9 and their social security card which our payroll department wants to see.

This lady gave my asst. her driver's license and a xerox copy of her SS card that was hardly readable. Because my asst. questioned the validity of the SS card and because a copy is not acceptable for the I-9, she asked if she had anything else. The lady then produced an I-551 "temporary evidence of lawful admission for permanent residence until Oct. 31, 2001." My asst. then told her that because it was expired, we could not accept it as proof of her eligibility to work. The lady left and returned a bit later with a receipt from the Social Security Administration, indicating that a new card would be mailed.

However, after dealing with the woman's beligerant attitude, I felt she would not be a good match at our company and withdrew the job offer.

My question: Even though we had seen the expired I-551, should we have just accepted the driver's license and SS receipt for the I-9 and hired her??

Theresa Gegen TX

I think you did the right thing. You hired the employee conditionally -- the condition being that she provide proof of eligibility to work in this country. (I am assuming that the social security receipt is not the type of acceptable proof for an I-9 form). She didn't. Therefore, the offer can be withdrawn.

Unless the proof she provided was acceptable for an I-9 (which it does not appear to be), I do not know what type of claim she would have against you.

You would be in much worse shape if you had hired her, then found out that she is not authorized to work in this country.

Good Luck!

HR in Okla

Thanks for your reply. I believe the receipt is acceptable for the I-9, providing they bring in the actual card as soon as received. That's what muddied the waters.

Don D

No. I think the SSA erred when they did not inspect her documents before taking the application for a duplicate card. I would do two things if it were me. (1) do not proceed with the hire based on your doubt of the documents, until she can produce documents that satisfy the process, including a renewal of the visa status document that is expired. The duplicate SSN card will be worthless in the absence of a renewed authorization to work issued by Justice/INS. Unless she is a lawfully admitted permanent resident or you're sponsoring her under the H1 program, she seems still to be missing a work authorization document. (2) Based on her status, this woman has endured multiple 'processes' before and knows to expect bumps along the way. If she indeed was biligerant, I would roll the dice and withdraw the offer rather than have to deal with her biligerance later. I don't assume it would disappear.

HireFire01

This brings back great memories:-) I used to have to deal with these types of situations all the time, working in the inner city of Philadelphia. You legally can accept a driver's license and social security card, as long as a person checks off either "Citizen" or "A Lawful Permanent Resident". If they check off the latter, they MUST put in their Alien #, but you are not required to see a card that proves it. Seeing the I-551 can't be used against her as long as she supplies the proper ID.

If she had an I-551 stamp that means that her green card is being processed, and she just hadn't gotten a new stamp..... You can always tell a lot about a person when you ask for their I.D:-)

Have a good one!

Don D

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 12-04-02 AT 12:58PM (CST)[/font][p]
Green card processing can take as long as 2 years. If she checks either 'citizen' or 'lawful permanent resident' she is not truthful. If she was here on an approved work visa and failed to move to renew that knowing the permanent residency application (green card) process would take quite a long time, that is her fault and you cannot correct that for her. If her authorization has expired, even though she's got a green card application in process, she's here illegally and also S.O.L. That's the whole point of her obligation to renew a soon-to-be expired authorization well before its expiration date. If I'm not mistaken, drivers' licenses in these cases are time limited based on the authorization documents issued by INS and that expiration date sould coincide with the expiration date of her authorization. If she produced a document that put her lawful presence in doubt, I would err on the side of trying to follow the law. And, even though she may roll out additional documents which, alone, might tend to authorize her, you still have the issue of knowing she is here illegally, with an expired authorization; and you would be negligently if not unlawfully employing her. In any event, you have enough doubt to go on and I would retract based on the biligerence.

HR in Okla

Thanks so much for the reassurance. I was mostly concerned that she would come back and accuse us of discrimination of some kind. It is precisely because we hire so many internationals that we scrutinize their documents carefully.

Jessica

HR in Okla,

I would like to add one other thing to the mix in this conversation.

My understanding is that you cannot ask for a specific document without commiting "document abuse." Along those lines it is not appropriate to remind new employees to bring "your driver's license and social security card."

We present the I-9 form and ask the new employee to provide any documents that meet the requirements. It is technically o.k. if they don't have them the first day because only the top section has to be completed the first day, the employer section can wait if necessary. It is then up to the employee to choose which documents they will provide. I do say, "One of the most common choices new employees make is to use a driver's license and social security card, but any combination of documents meeting the requirements on the form is acceptable."

It sounds like your offer letter already has this covered but I thought I'd throw our verbage in 1) for those who might not be using it yet, and 2) in case we need to changes something and some of you folks wouldn't mind pointing that out and offering additional advice along these lines. So here's what we use:

"It is the policy of company name to employ only those individuals entitled to work in the United States. In complying with the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA), it is against company name’s policy to discriminate because of an individual’s national origin, citizenship, or intent to become a U.S. citizen.

As a condition of employment, each new employee must complete, sign and date the first section of the Immigration and Naturalization Service Employment Eligibility Verification Form I-9. Employees must also provide certain documents evidencing identity and employment eligibility."

So forum-folks, how'm I doing here?

Jessica

Don D

Great advice Jessica; however, it is appropriate to instruct one to bring a document if the stated reason is "for payroll purposes", rather than I-9 purposes. The latter is the violation. Just as you might tell the person to bring the SSNs of children/spouse and DOBs (for insurance enrollment) or name and correct address of contact person for emergency.

Jessica

Thanks for the clarification! The tricks are in the details. Jessica

HR in Okla

You are right, we don't tell them what to bring, but say that "most people use a driver's license and SS card." Our handbook policy says almost verbatim what your does. The practical matter is that if we don't see their documents the first day, it is difficult to get them back into our office with them. Too many "forget" or "can't find them" and once they actually start work, we lose our opportunity.

How does anyone else deal with this?

LindaS

Our handbook states that employees must present valid documentary proof of their identity as well as their authorization to work within three days of starting and I have not had a problem with the enforcement of this.

With a prior employer I would bring up to 10 new employees in a week and many of them "forgot" or "lost" the necessary documentation so what I did was inform them what would be acceptable documentation and allow them up to one week to provide it. I made a note of it on my daily planner and once that week was up, if they did not provide the necessary information, they were not allowed to return to work until they provided it. It was amazing how fast they were able to obtain the necessary information.

HR in Okla

You are to see the documents within 3 days of hire. And we certainly don't get all of them on the first day. A while back I audited our I-9 files and found someone who had worked a month with only part one of the I-9 completed. When I contacted her and asked to get this corrected immediately, it turned out she didn't HAVE legal documents. Needless to say, she was terminated in a hurry. But following that, we've been sticklers about encouraging people to bring their documents the first day if at all possible. Once someone is on the job, supervisors get testy if you have to fire them because they don't have their paperwork in order!