Help! Manager didn't follow instructions

Johana 1

One of our managers was supposed to terminated an employee for poor performance.
He was very clear that this should be a short conversation since the employee was already aware of his performance issues. The manager wanted to let him go himself. I told him that I can be ther with him but he told me that he felt better if he did it alone (I should know better). Anyway the employee was declined unemployment and he called me (HR Manager) He told me that the manager didn't tell him that he was let go for performance. He told me that the manager laid him off because his manager told him that he couldn't keep two people any longer. Teh Manager told me that he was not that clear with the employee becuase he wanted to let him down easy. After taking a walk to cool off I talked to the manager and told him why this is such a mess now. I also told him how I was not changing the reason for termination. He was left go for perfromance period. Here is my questions. Should I write the manager up? If I should? What shoudl I write him up for? No following instructions?
Please advise!
Thanks Have a great Turkey day

pecohr

In my state (Oregon) the ee would receive unemployment even if he was fired (about only reason for ineligibility here is GROSS misconduct) and I think most states just impose a extended time before ee is eligible, so I wouldn't make that the issue (might be different where you live). I would look at this as a training and performance issue and put together a PIP for this manager rather than write him up. And of course document everything well.

Happy Turkey Day!!!

Balloonman

Have the managers been trained in this area? It sounds like you were very clear and the manager should have known what to do, but remember, most people have a hard time doing this. Most people find it difficult to terminate others, and handle it poorly but running their mouths, losing focus, and doing as yours did, letting them down easy by not being clear. This often results in a greater legal exposure for the company.
I don't know if "writing him up" is appropriate, or should you sit down with him, do a counseling session that you document and put in the file. Then the next time he has to termintate someone, sit down with him ahead of time, review the session, have him go over what he is going to say. Then if he does it you could hammer him with a write up. But by going with an educational/counseling session that you document you might be able to get further.
Focus on getting him to understand that the indiviual got themselves fired for performance, he did not fire them. I always approached terminations this way. When the person is saying how can you fire me, I tell them, I am not firing them, they got themselves fired. I make sure they understand that their actions resulted in their termination.
Well that is my lengthy $0.02 worth.
Good luck.

Dutch2

I like the Ballonman's comment. Have you ever read the story about the Daily Care and Feeding of Monkeys? You can burden yourself down very quickly with numerous monkeys, more than you can take care of, if you allow others to keep giving their monkey(s) to you. The problem belongs to the ee that is being terminated. They are being let go because they did not perform the job in an acceptable manner. And in most all cases this is not the first time the ee was talked with (and documented) about their poor performance. Honesty is always the best policy when having to terminate soemone. If it should to to court, one version of the story sure plays better thatn multiple versions of the same story.

Gillian

I agree with the comments that the issue is one of training. Why, though, are HR persons considering writing up a manager, or firing people for that matter, other than those who aren't working out in our own department? Our job is to train and counsel managers to manage the employees who work for them, and that includes dismissing those that don't work out, in the proper way. When HR is viewed by employees as the place that you go to get hired and the place where you go to get fired, we lose the role that we should have, a neutral party having the trust of both management and employees.

Theresa Gegen TX

And in training the manager, you really need to let him know what the legal ramifications are of letting someone "down easy" by lying about the reason for termination. The biggest legal risk is not unemployment. The biggest risk is that the employee who was told they are "laid off" is replaced by someone who is different than the employee (in race, sex, age, etc). Then the employee sues for discrimination.

The employee now gets to a jury, because the employer lied about the reason for termination. This happens all the time in age discrimination cases. Once the employer states a false reason for termination (laid off -- when in fact there was no lay off) a jury can infer that the true reason for the termination was unlawful discrimination. That's it. That false statement is enough evidence to hold the company liable for an unlawful motivation.

Plus, I personally feel that an employee has a right to know the true reason. If the employee was not performing up to standards, the employee has a right to know that -- so in the future (at another employer) the employee can try to improve. The manager is not helping the employee out by lying to him or her.

With an inexperienced manager, the manager should do the termination, BUT HR should be there as support and a witness. It is not unusual for an HR department to help the manager by writing out a script and going through dry runs and practice sessions. This is especially helpful if you think the employee may become argumentative and violent. In fact, many companies require HR or a second manager to attend all terminations, basically as a witness to what was said and done.

Good Luck!!

Gillian

I disagree, to some extent with Theresa's BOLD PRINT about HR being there as a witness and support. There may be times when that is valuable and if so, we should be there. On the other hand, if the issue is not complex AND if management has been trained, there should be no problem with two managers being there. If we are there as a witness in all the terminations, the perception of the employees will be that we are part of the firing, and we lose the neutrality that we need to have. The perception of employees is just as valid as the reality.

SDDCHR

Where is the documentation on poor performance that led up to this termination? This employee should've known that this was coming. Was this a one-time incident that was severe enough to result in termination? Poor performance is normally going to result in ongoing documentaion that supports corrective action. I also agree that you should develop the scripts for termination ahead of time and go over it with your managers to ensure that everything in the letter is correct.