Apology to the Terrorist

I don't know if this has been posted before, if it has I apologize for reposting. If not, then enjoy.

For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day My Lai massacre. . I heard some Arabs and Muslims are asking for an apology. I humbly offer mine here: . I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.). I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11. I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs. I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships. I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth. I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media. . I am sorry that Yasir Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and hijacked the Palestinian "cause". I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians. I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems. . I am sorry that our own left wing elite, our media, and our own brainwashed (from elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES) masses do not understand any of this. . I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered. I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death, but won't pay to help alleviate their squalor and misery while alive. I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise." I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are all legitimate targets. . I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making. I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group. . I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state. I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah. . I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "holy site". I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our holy sites. . I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc......etc! . I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa. . America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do. We hang out our dirty laundry for all the world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology. . When most Americans saw this reported in the news, they thought of the lost hundreds, of the still-vivid memories of savage butchery of our people who were killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujans. But they still felt common human decency, and felt compassion and outrage for the victims of abuse at Al Ghraib prison -- and spoke out vociferously about it. . If you're awaiting an apology to those who gleefully butcher the living then send a video of it around the world, or to those who murder women and children non-combatants -- IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF WHAT THE QURAN UNAMBIGUOUSLY DEMANDS -- you're going to have a long wait. You have a better chance of finding those 72 virgins



  • 53 Comments sorted by Votes Date Added
  • An excellent perspective.
  • Thank you, Slogan. That was excellent.
  • I know four people on the Forum who don't agree with you, Ray!
  • And how many hundreds who do agree?
  • I agree with Kiwi.

    Terrorists need no apology. Do we apologize to convicted killers in our country/court system? Are they not terrorists? OK, those were not good questions because I am sure there are those who do. The only apology I would give to a terrorist would be "I'm sorry you had to die that way" after the steel of my gun cooled from the projectile that spewed from it.
  • Slogan,
    Awesome post. One of the best I've seen.
    Thanks for sharing it.

  • My humblest "Your Welcome" to all.
  • Anyone else notice the absence of the "loyal opposition"? Where is the liberal rebuttal? Those who believe we should apologize for all those things, half those things, a quarter of those things, any one of those things, where are you? Speak up?
  • I'm disgusted at the treatment of the prisoners, I can't believe our soldiers would behave in such a fashion. I think they should be disciplined by whomever it is that disciplines the military. But apologize? H*ll no.
  • If somebody was about to slice off the head of my 24 year old son, I would strip a prisoner naked, hold a dog at bay against his head, show him a photo of a naked woman, paint him with pig fat, attach an electical wire to his testicles, make him stand for 4 hours, drip water on his head, whatever it took to get information from him necessary to free my son. I would 'behave in a fashion' you would not believe. War is hell. So is captivity. So is interrogation. So is the stuff you will never know about. x}>
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-30-04 AT 11:15PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Great post, Slogan. I would not change a word and I agree with everything. Now, Don: Obviously you don't see the logic and the good policy involved in NOT treating terrorists the same way they treat us. I'm sure that some of the more militant members of the German Army during WWII thought that it was OK to strip a Jew naked, hold a dog at bay against his head, paint him with pig fat and attach an electrical wire to his testicles. And he did it all in the name of the Final Solution to the Jewish Problem.

    Please don't even imply that we are on a par with those who commit atrocities in the name of "liberation." I am absolutely appalled that an educated man would even suggest that we sink to the level of the terrorists.

    The moment we lose our morality in the exercise of armed conflict, the less civilized we become as a nation and a society. And the less we should expect respect from the world.

    (edit): To play the "mother" card was really kind of a cheap shot. Those who go through the training, learn to fight, learn about the the way war is to be conducted, and wear the uniform know what they're getting into and also know that they might go into harm's way. S**t happens.
  • What mother card? I'm speaking as a father. It's insane for you to compare holding a dog at bay, making a prisoner stand up, playing loud music, sleep deprivation, pig fat and stripping somebody naked with the attrocities committed by the mongrels who are slicing off heads. I say take it up a notch. And if doing so will get enough information from an interrogation to save one American life or gain the information sought, go for it.

    You obviously are not a student of history Parabeagle. The ultimate German solution to what you term 'the Jewish problem' was NOT pig fat and wired testicles.
  • Right, if someone did that to my kid - if I had one- I'd react the same way. But as far as I know, none of those soldiers were parents to any of the beheaded.
  • What I'm advocating is that it's entirely appropriate to 'wrench' information out of people for the common good. The common good being fewer heads sliced off, a quicker end to the madness, the discovery of where the biological agents are buried and a map or two to the yet to be located mass graves. No prisoner is gonna talk if you feed him M&Ms and give him a prayer rug.

    Ratchet it up!
  • Point taken, if I saw that as torture to extract information I'd be inclined to agree. But lets face it, humiliation and torture are not the same thing and I will not be fooled into thinking that forcing one to simulate oral sex, being covered in feces and wearing panties on one's head are effective means of extracting information. So lets call it what it is - bored folks having "fun" - no apologies, it happened, too bad, thats it.
  • We might all be surprised what kind of 'idiotic' things make people talk. Things far short of physical torture, in the sense of painful, like exhaustion, too hot or cold, too quiet or noisy, marshall music, babies crying, threats, are all part of getting a persons brain to the point where psychological manipulation can be effective. What, you con't condone such tactics? Guess you don't belong to an organized religion either. (Noat meant for you Rad, but for those who might think that way)!
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 06-30-04 AT 11:52PM (CST)[/font][br][br]Slogan, I'm sure you have a problem with Rush Limbaugh's characterization of what went on at Abu Ghraib prison as just fraternity-style pranks. I'm sure you feel sorry that he is an American, don't you?
  • I think the word you were searching for was 'hazing'. I'm not sorry he's an American. I only wish you were as American as he. Instead of bemoaning the fact that you are American. A jet leaves every hour on the hour for France and another for the Korean Peninsula.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-01-04 AT 08:23AM (CST)[/font][br][br]One of the great things about this country is freedom of speech. The fact that I am critical of Bush's policy is because I love this country and everything it is suppose to stand for. I think those who believe in disregarding the Bill of Rights should move to a country that has no bill of rights like Iraq.
  • [font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-01-04 AT 08:27AM (CST)[/font][br][br]Typcial statement from soneone like you -- get out of America if you don't agree with Bush's policies.

    I'll be taking the US Constitution with me since Bush, Ashcroft, and you are destroying it. It needs to be preserved somewhere.
  • Hatchetman, good luck in wrestling the US Constitution away from the ACLU.

    By the way, where ya' headed just in case we have to come and rescue you from your greener pastures?
  • If the ACLU has the US Constitution I say good. It's better defended, protected and enforced by them than by Bush and Ashcroft.
  • Hatchetman,

    Ever wonder why the ready availability of transportation out of America isn't explained to those on the right? For example, you just about never hear anyone say, "Hey, there's a plane leaving for North Korea (or some other oppressive regime of your choice) if you don't like the Supreme Court's decision on that case brought by the ACLU."

    Funny how that works....
  • I certainly wouldn't suggest that someone who disagrees with Bush or anyone else's politics should 'get out of the country'. My airline departure comment was in reference to those who bemoan actually BEING American and detest everything about America and want it totally turned into a Socialist Republic. Those plus the Alec Baldwin's and Barbra Strut-sands who promised to leave the country if the current president were elected. Those are the ones the planes on the tarmac are idling for. See, THAT'S how it works. x:-)
  • Hatchetman, in reference to Rush Limbaugh, I took no offense to his characterization of the Abu Garaib situation. Putting that situation in context helps to clarify it. You had 7-12 soldiers out 130,000 doing something dumb and the liberal press wants to excoriate them? Give me a break. In the weeks following the prison situation, organiztions like The New York Times, Newsweek et. al. ran more than 50 pages of articles on the situation there. Compare that to the 5 pages they ran on the beheading of an American citizen, Nick Berg. My picture of Rush Limbaugh hangs under the pictures of Ronald Reagan and "W".

    As to your assertion that the ACLU is the better keeper of the US Constitution, think again. I have been researching the Patriot Act for some time now, and believe me it takes a lot of time.
    But what I have found is the exact opoosite of what you are saying. Sections 213 & 215 are the sections that people like you are having a hard time understanding. In spite of what you say or think, those sections actually strenghten your rights not weaken them. Back in the 40's & 50's, there were laws passed and signed into law that allowed the FBI to get the library records of people. The purpose was to see if people were reading and trying to become communist. The law did not differentiate between American citizens and foreigners. Everyone was suspect. Section 215 of the Patriot Act Clarified this and said that the library records of American citizens were off limits to the government. The records of foreigners are still fair game. Then section 213 futrther clarifies and strenthens the fact that any time anyones records are wanted, it must be with a search warrant issued by a Fedral Magistrate and as long as the case is active, the court will continue to monitor the use of the search warrant. This has never been done before in our history.

    So accuse Bush & Ashcroft all you want, but all you are doing is making yourself a puppet of the looney liberal left. And in reference to what Don said, find me another country were your individual freedoms and liberties are so well protected.
  • Well, Ray, there was a lot to digest so I did it last night. Here's my try, but it's not really a rebuttal.
    A=Agree, N=Nuts, A/N=Agree in part, Nuts in part,
    ?=I don't know.


    Here's my take on the N's
    Prisoner abuse/My Lai - this issue will disappear - it doesn't have the legs as soldiers herding a village full of unarmed civilians into a ditch and shooting them.
    Blaming the US - I don't think that all the insanely wealthly blame us. I expect some do and some don't.
    Understanding by the left - they understand, only too well.
    Daisy Cutters - tit for tat, the way to solve problems. We aren't barbarians, or are we? See #1. Drop more daisy cutters in order to recruit even more to the opposition, and a few years hence, we will leave just like the Russians from Afghanistan.
    Michael Moore - I feel the pain. I feel the same way about Rush Limbaugh and his food intake could feed Asia.

    Overall, I think the piece was well done. While Slogan took pains to distinguish between crazy Arabs and Muslims and the rest, I think the distinction got lost in all the verbiage. I think a lot of Middle-Easterners think that the terrorists are not Islamic, just nuts, just like we think that the "Christians" who somehow wrap Chrisianity, the Bible, nazism and white supremacy in a package are nuts, not Christian nuts. I think most Middle Easterners think this way because I have a son-in-law who is a Muslim and from Algeria and that is what he and his thinks. Granted, they are not an average family so my perspective may be off. His father is a world-renowned (in the Middle East anyway) scholar in ancient Arabic documents and he doesn't see the terrorists as Islamic either.

    Maybe we should send the guys home from all governments involved and send their wives out to see what they can do. There is too much testosterone running around.

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