Discipline and discharge pitfalls

aliciac · January 2007

It's 4:24pm on Tuesday, and I was just asked to give a breif training tomorrow afternoon to our yard foremen from our 11 locations on proper discipline and discharge. I'm thinking I'll mostly focus on the need at all times for good documentation of everything...but it should probably be a training that lasts longer than that! I don't even know how much time I'm supposed to fill, so if you could, please just reply with some topics that you think are important to cover in general. We're in retail, but the foremen run the 'yard crew' who drive forklifts, unload materials from vendor's trucks, help customers load materials into their vehicles. How much do you think should be covered in a brief 'overview' of proper discipline and terminations?

Thanks for any help you can provide before noon (PST) on Wednesday!!

WT · January 2007

The most common mistake in discipline is not having all the facts in hand before administration of discipline. All the facts need to come out and all the players need to be heard from before the discipline. Any investigation that I ever did brought facts to light that were not told to me at the beginning. The heart of discipline is a good solid investigation. Sometimes an employee gets a bad reputation and is deemed to deserve discipline, thus they could be disciplined more harshly than another employee for a similar offence. Discipline is for the current offense and if you go on past behavior, it had better be well documented. Be conservative. It is better to give two days suspension and have it upheld than to give two weeks and have some third party overturn it.

Tony Kessler · January 2007

aliciac, on this site, check out the tables of contents for the HR Special Reports on "Documentation and Discipline," "Problem Employees," and "Firing" (especially the latter). They should provide you with a quick list of plenty of topics to cover, depending on how much time you have to fill. Good luck! tk

AnneHa · January 2007

I always like to inform supervisors that they can be liable in the event a wrongful termination suit is filed. As in "You worked hard for that new 4x4 - don't you want to keep it?"

I also tell them to step back for a bit, and think before they do anything in the heat of the moment.

Consistent, fair, and document, document, document.

Anne in Ohio

Dutch2 · January 2007

I always make it a point to emphasize the point that "dicipline" or performance coaching, what ever you call it, is not a way to get rid of anyone. It is intended as a means of addressing and correcting an attendance, performance or conduct situation and getting eveyone back to work. Our Superivsors know from past experience that I will always take the side of the ee in question and they must be able to prove what is actually happening. Of course this means documentation. Another important role is to maintain consistency with all ee's. They will know if little Johnny did the same thing a few months back and nothing happened to him.
Good luck with your presentation.

HRinGA · January 2007

We should never be in a hurry to fire someone. I can't tell you how many times I've said that to a manager. Let them know HR is their friend. You can make their lives so much easier if they communicate with you. (That's the "what's-in-it-for-me?" factor)

And as others said, document, document. A simple note in a day-timer works.

ray a · January 2007

Our VP has a motto, "hire slowly, fire quickly".

System · January 2007

Ray,
I prefer the poetic version of that: "slow to hire, quick to fire" (if it rhymes or has a tune, my pea-brain can retain it longer)

HRinGA · January 2007

well, I didn't mean to sit around and hold on to someone who stinks, but to make sure you have your ducks in a row. I've experienced the "rush through" to fire someone that day and it came back to bite me in the butt. I like to ask questions and make sure the termination is justified.
You know what I mean. I'm not a softy. If you can't do the job, then I'll get someone in here who can.

System · January 2007

I think that we too often focus on the process of firing (i.e do we have enough documentation, have our polcies and rules been clearly speeled out, etc) and not enough time on the process of hiring. We have all experienced the pressure to fill positions quickly due to business demands and fail to notice how hasty decisons in the hiring phase are often what leads to the problem down the road.As you rightfully pointed out that "rushed" decisions to terminate can come back to bite you in the arse, rushed decisions to hire (inadequate screening, poor interviewing process, lack of THOROUGH background checks, poorly defined job requirements, etc) is what leads to a whole new slew of problems with the newly hired employee. Then, when the performance deficiencies begin to manifest themselves, we often wring our hands, worrying whether or not we are properly prepared to defend our decision to terminate. So we continue to try to "make a silk purse out a sows ear" , knowing full well the employee is not a good fit, and allow fear of potential litigation rule our decision to keep the poor performer employed until all i's have been dotted and t's crossed. Its just another way of saying to spend more time worrying about who you hire, and you won't have to spend so much time worrying about whether or not to fire.

Tony Kessler · January 2007

aliciac, how did the presentation go? tk

aliciac · January 2007

Jimminy Crickets, how annoying!
I get all scared and seriously over-prepare for this, and all for essentially nothing. I have no idea why I was there. They had a speaker in the meeting, and he spoke the whole time...I never said a darn word!
Thank you so much to everyone who replied though, I'll be ready to go if I'm ever needed to speak on the subject again!!

Caroliso · January 2007

Now I am annoyed on your behalf, Alicia. It sounds like someone wasn't sure the speaker was going to be there and was trying to cover their buns. Would have been nice for them to tell you, though.

As you say, now you're ready!

Discipline and discharge pitfalls

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